Author Topic: Lies about Sheila's mental health  (Read 32951 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2020, 10:08:03 AM »


So you’re saying married couples adopt a young child, go through all the hard work of bringing them up, including the huge financial costs, just so they can look after them when they become old and infirm?!

Never thought of that one before, and your suggestion couples give up their freedom, devote time to raising their adopted child, spending hundreds of thousands doing it — just so they can become personal careers for when THEY’RE older is not only a strange reason — it doesn’t add up!

Why not save all those hundreds of thousands and employ a personal live-in carer when they’re older?!

You talk as though some couples adopt to get themselves a slave. How about people who “adopt” animals? Are they after a slave? When couples can’t adopt a child they often compensate by buying themselves a pet — who they usually ADORE and spoil. If you’re saying humans aren’t capable of loving their adopted child as much as a dog or a cat, we will have to agree to disagree.

You’re also forgetting that if a couple adopt a child who’s, say, a toddler or older, then often that child will already be damaged in some way. Maybe you’re taking statistics from that group, rather than where couples adopt BABIES (such as the Bambers’ did) in which they haven’t been subjected to a horrendous upbringing by a parent who could be a drug addict, mentally unstable, cruel, neglectful etc. Of course those children will already be affected, and that’ll make the adoption process harder. But adopting a baby doesn’t bring with it the trauma the child may have been subjected to.

As usual you are insisting that your opinions are the correct ones. People have children for a variety of reasons and adoptees are no different. Both natural and adopting parents can find parenting a lot more difficult than they expected it to be.

Making sweeping statements such as "Adoptive children grow up in warm loving homes with parents who adore and nurture them." simply demonstrate your inability to understand the many reasons why people adopt and the challenges they face once they have a real live child with all it's needs and wants to deal with.

June Bamber, for example, doesn't seem to have been physically demonstrative and she ended up with a daughter who was desperate for cuddles and who felt the lack of them deeply. Not every parent, natural or adoptive can meet their children's needs.
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Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2020, 10:34:52 AM »
As usual you are insisting that your opinions are the correct ones. People have children for a variety of reasons and adoptees are no different. Both natural and adopting parents can find parenting a lot more difficult than they expected it to be.

Making sweeping statements such as "Adoptive children grow up in warm loving homes with parents who adore and nurture them." simply demonstrate your inability to understand the many reasons why people adopt and the challenges they face once they have a real live child with all it's needs and wants to deal with.

June Bamber, for example, doesn't seem to have been physically demonstrative and she ended up with a daughter who was desperate for cuddles and who felt the lack of them deeply. Not every parent, natural or adoptive can meet their children's needs.


Well, I’m hardly going to give an opinion I don’t agree with, am I?!

From my studies — including firsthand knowledge —  all adoptee parents crave a family. They’ll even PAY for a surrogate baby.

To suggest they only want a child as a future carer is absurd.

Nor do I understand you saying that people have children “for a variety of reasons”

Name these “variety of reasons”, Gunit

Going by MYSELF, including everyone I know, people have children because they WANT children. It’s human nature. It’s normal to procreate. Men are hardwired to spread their seed, and most women are hardwired to be maternal and get broody.

You’ll find a small minority of women who don’t want children; even like children; but in the grand scheme of things nature makes that abnormal. We’re programmed to want children.

As for raising children, there can be difficult times — that’s normal. But that happens whether children are adopted or your biological own.

You’re trying to throw the blame for Jeremy Bamber being a psychopath on June and Nevill, and that’s BS. Psychopaths are BORN with their brains wired up wrong. It’s quite likely instinct told June and Nevill that Jeremy wasn’t “right” even when he was a child, and that may have caused June to throw herself into religion as a form of escape.

No-one will ever know what all their true feelings were, but Jeremy was very vocal how much he hated them...which kind of makes all this repulsive BS he does getting TB reading sickly lies by their graves look as false as all his other lies when he denied killing them, but got convicted die to overwhelming evidence.


Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline APRIL

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2020, 10:53:07 AM »


So you’re saying married couples adopt a young child, go through all the hard work of bringing them up, including the huge financial costs, just so they can look after them when they become old and infirm?!

Never thought of that one before, and your suggestion couples give up their freedom, devote time to raising their adopted child, spending hundreds of thousands doing it — just so they can become personal careers for when THEY’RE older is not only a strange reason — it doesn’t add up!

Why not save all those hundreds of thousands and employ a personal live-in carer when they’re older?!

You talk as though some couples adopt to get themselves a slave. How about people who “adopt” animals? Are they after a slave? When couples can’t adopt a child they often compensate by buying themselves a pet — who they usually ADORE and spoil. If you’re saying humans aren’t capable of loving their adopted child as much as a dog or a cat, we will have to agree to disagree.

You’re also forgetting that if a couple adopt a child who’s, say, a toddler or older, then often that child will already be damaged in some way. Maybe you’re taking statistics from that group, rather than where couples adopt BABIES (such as the Bambers’ did) in which they haven’t been subjected to a horrendous upbringing by a parent who could be a drug addict, mentally unstable, cruel, neglectful etc. Of course those children will already be affected, and that’ll make the adoption process harder. But adopting a baby doesn’t bring with it the trauma the child may have been subjected to.



You ask a lot of questions, Spy, but it shows a willingness to accept that things are not always as we'd like them to be. I will answer each point to the best of my ability.

I am, indeed, saying SOME couples have done exactly that.

I agree. It doesn't add up. However, think of the kudos. SUCH generous parents. All the money they've spent on that child.

A live in carer would be a stranger. A grown-up child would have been 'trained' and controlled to do the parents'.
bidding without question.

They would, of course, deny it, but "a slave" is exactly what they want, or at least, unquestioning slave-like devotion and gratitude which they believe is their right. Most people love their children and animals alike. I believe animals can be a substitute for children. I have witnessed some, who need to have control, who love their animals more than their children because animals -dogs more than cats- obey commands. For these people, it probably won't be any different it the child in question is adopted or biological. It's about the parent's inability to love unconditionally.

No, I'm not forgetting that now, because there's no longer a stigma attached to being a single parent, there are fewer babies available for adoption. This means that older children are likely to bring a whole life's worth of baggage with them that no child should have. At the very least there will be trust issues. It takes true love, devotion and patience to help them through it to a place where they feel safe. But, there's always the separation issue. A baby spends 9 months in it's mother's w..b. It hears her voice. It's senses her moods. It's widely known that by six weeks old, a baby reacts to it's mother's voice, the sound of her approaching, her smell and her touch. Remove the safety of everything which is "mother" to a helpless child and we're left with a child experiencing fear. I haven't touched on rejection, but however much an adopted child might be assured that "mummy really wanted to keep you but she couldn't", the hard fact remains that mummy made the choice -the reasons, to a child, won't be understood- to give her child away.

One would hope that adoption was no more complicated than childless people with love to give can be put together with a motherless child who need a home and everyone lives happily ever after. Sadly, it can prove to be a minefield. One desperate mother shared with me that she'd had to disown her adopted daughter, because having spent thousands on her education and supporting her through university, she'd been persuaded by her biological family, that she'd be happier working in a supermarket. Such proved to be the case. This child had been 'rescued' from a family who'd survived on their wits and benefits for generations, and placed with a professional family who had huge expectations of her -it COULD have been a golden opportunity- but she preferred the warmth and acceptance she felt within her biological family. Such was the adoptive mother's determination that her's was the right path for her daughter, there was never going to be a happy resolution. How similar is this case to that of the Bamber's...................and, indeed, my own?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2020, 11:06:01 AM »

Well, I’m hardly going to give an opinion I don’t agree with, am I?!

From my studies — including firsthand knowledge —  all adoptee parents crave a family. They’ll even PAY for a surrogate baby.

To suggest they only want a child as a future carer is absurd.

Nor do I understand you saying that people have children “for a variety of reasons”

Name these “variety of reasons”, Gunit

Going by MYSELF, including everyone I know, people have children because they WANT children. It’s human nature. It’s normal to procreate. Men are hardwired to spread their seed, and most women are hardwired to be maternal and get broody.

You’ll find a small minority of women who don’t want children; even like children; but in the grand scheme of things nature makes that abnormal. We’re programmed to want children.

As for raising children, there can be difficult times — that’s normal. But that happens whether children are adopted or your biological own.

You’re trying to throw the blame for Jeremy Bamber being a psychopath on June and Nevill, and that’s BS. Psychopaths are BORN with their brains wired up wrong. It’s quite likely instinct told June and Nevill that Jeremy wasn’t “right” even when he was a child, and that may have caused June to throw herself into religion as a form of escape.

No-one will ever know what all their true feelings were, but Jeremy was very vocal how much he hated them...which kind of makes all this repulsive BS he does getting TB reading sickly lies by their graves look as false as all his other lies when he denied killing them, but got convicted die to overwhelming evidence.

You're entitled to an opinion so long as you acknowledge it is an opinion. You have an unfortunate habit of posting your opinions as if they are facts. Your above statement, for example, would have benefitted from having the phrase 'in my opinion' added.

Women have been known to get pregnant because all their friends are doing it, because time is running out or to try to heal a failing relationship. Adoption may be considered for the same reasons.



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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #64 on: June 20, 2020, 11:12:58 AM »

Well, I’m hardly going to give an opinion I don’t agree with, am I?!

From my studies — including firsthand knowledge —  all adoptee parents crave a family. They’ll even PAY for a surrogate baby.

To suggest they only want a child as a future carer is absurd.

Nor do I understand you saying that people have children “for a variety of reasons”

Name these “variety of reasons”, Gunit

Going by MYSELF, including everyone I know, people have children because they WANT children. It’s human nature. It’s normal to procreate. Men are hardwired to spread their seed, and most women are hardwired to be maternal and get broody.

You’ll find a small minority of women who don’t want children; even like children; but in the grand scheme of things nature makes that abnormal. We’re programmed to want children.

As for raising children, there can be difficult times — that’s normal. But that happens whether children are adopted or your biological own.

You’re trying to throw the blame for Jeremy Bamber being a psychopath on June and Nevill, and that’s BS. Psychopaths are BORN with their brains wired up wrong. It’s quite likely instinct told June and Nevill that Jeremy wasn’t “right” even when he was a child, and that may have caused June to throw herself into religion as a form of escape.

No-one will ever know what all their true feelings were, but Jeremy was very vocal how much he hated them...which kind of makes all this repulsive BS he does getting TB reading sickly lies by their graves look as false as all his other lies when he denied killing them, but got convicted die to overwhelming evidence.

I believe humans ideally want to invest in and nurture their own genetic offspring not the offspring of others.

Who grows up thinking that one day they'll find someone to settle down with and adopt?  Adoption is second choice for most couples who find themselves infertile after often a long and painful journey.

June Bamber was so distraught when she found herself unable to conceive she ended up having a breakdown that required in-patient psychiatric care in 1955 long before either SC or JB had even been conceived.  Given she experienced another for the same reason in 1959 after adopting SC suggests she had not come to terms with the loss of not having birth children.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline APRIL

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2020, 11:25:47 AM »

Well, I’m hardly going to give an opinion I don’t agree with, am I?!

From my studies — including firsthand knowledge —  all adoptee parents crave a family. They’ll even PAY for a surrogate baby.

To suggest they only want a child as a future carer is absurd.

Nor do I understand you saying that people have children “for a variety of reasons”

Name these “variety of reasons”, Gunit

Going by MYSELF, including everyone I know, people have children because they WANT children. It’s human nature. It’s normal to procreate. Men are hardwired to spread their seed, and most women are hardwired to be maternal and get broody.

You’ll find a small minority of women who don’t want children; even like children; but in the grand scheme of things nature makes that abnormal. We’re programmed to want children.

As for raising children, there can be difficult times — that’s normal. But that happens whether children are adopted or your biological own.

You’re trying to throw the blame for Jeremy Bamber being a psychopath on June and Nevill, and that’s BS. Psychopaths are BORN with their brains wired up wrong. It’s quite likely instinct told June and Nevill that Jeremy wasn’t “right” even when he was a child, and that may have caused June to throw herself into religion as a form of escape.

No-one will ever know what all their true feelings were, but Jeremy was very vocal how much he hated them...which kind of makes all this repulsive BS he does getting TB reading sickly lies by their graves look as false as all his other lies when he denied killing them, but got convicted die to overwhelming evidence.


Oh dear, Spy. That tight and secure little bubble you inhabit certainly cushions you from the many problems experienced by those of us in the real world.

So everyone you know has children because they want children? Well, bully for them. Ask the woman, pregnant with another child when her baby is only 6 weeks old, how badly she wants another child. Ask the woman whose husband is out of work, how welcome is her pregnancy. The list is endless, of women pregnant with babies who won't be a welcome addition to their families.

Certainly, those wanting to adopt, "CRAVE" babies, but until you know what are their agendas, you won't know the full story. It MIGHT be no deeper than all their friends are having babies and they feel left out. It MAY be that they've got the 'right' sized house, the car, the holidays, and the income and a baby is next on their check list. The "CRAVING" will be just as strong.

It's not possible to give a definitive cause of psychopathy. Jeremy MAY have had a genetic predisposition to it. It MAY have been caused by being dropped on his head in infancy, possibly resulting in a hairline skull fracture and frontal lobe damage. We don't know where it started, but as with his sense of entitlement, we know where it ended.

Offline APRIL

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2020, 11:29:06 AM »
I believe humans ideally want to invest in and nurture their own genetic offspring not the offspring of others.

Who grows up thinking that one day they'll find someone to settle down with and adopt?  Adoption is second choice for most couples who find themselves infertile after often a long and painful journey.

June Bamber was so distraught when she found herself unable to conceive she ended up having a breakdown that required in-patient psychiatric care in 1955 long before either SC or JB had even been conceived.  Given she experienced another for the same reason in 1959 after adopting SC suggests she had not come to terms with the loss of not having birth children.


I entirely agree with those sentiments. Adoption, for the most part, IS a second choice. It's never at the top of anyone's life plan. Small wonder, then, if some adopted children feel as if they're second best.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2020, 11:32:53 AM »

I entirely agree with those sentiments. Adoption, for the most part, IS a second choice. It's never at the top of anyone's life plan. Small wonder, then, if some adopted children feel as if they're second best.

https://youtu.be/Y3pX4C-mtiI
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2020, 12:13:01 PM »


You ask a lot of questions, Spy, but it shows a willingness to accept that things are not always as we'd like them to be. I will answer each point to the best of my ability.

I am, indeed, saying SOME couples have done exactly that.

I agree. It doesn't add up. However, think of the kudos. SUCH generous parents. All the money they've spent on that child.

A live in carer would be a stranger. A grown-up child would have been 'trained' and controlled to do the parents'.
bidding without question.

They would, of course, deny it, but "a slave" is exactly what they want, or at least, unquestioning slave-like devotion and gratitude which they believe is their right. Most people love their children and animals alike. I believe animals can be a substitute for children. I have witnessed some, who need to have control, who love their animals more than their children because animals -dogs more than cats- obey commands. For these people, it probably won't be any different it the child in question is adopted or biological. It's about the parent's inability to love unconditionally.

No, I'm not forgetting that now, because there's no longer a stigma attached to being a single parent, there are fewer babies available for adoption. This means that older children are likely to bring a whole life's worth of baggage with them that no child should have. At the very least there will be trust issues. It takes true love, devotion and patience to help them through it to a place where they feel safe. But, there's always the separation issue. A baby spends 9 months in it's mother's w..b. It hears her voice. It's senses her moods. It's widely known that by six weeks old, a baby reacts to it's mother's voice, the sound of her approaching, her smell and her touch. Remove the safety of everything which is "mother" to a helpless child and we're left with a child experiencing fear. I haven't touched on rejection, but however much an adopted child might be assured that "mummy really wanted to keep you but she couldn't", the hard fact remains that mummy made the choice -the reasons, to a child, won't be understood- to give her child away.

One would hope that adoption was no more complicated than childless people with love to give can be put together with a motherless child who need a home and everyone lives happily ever after. Sadly, it can prove to be a minefield. One desperate mother shared with me that she'd had to disown her adopted daughter, because having spent thousands on her education and supporting her through university, she'd been persuaded by her biological family, that she'd be happier working in a supermarket. Such proved to be the case. This child had been 'rescued' from a family who'd survived on their wits and benefits for generations, and placed with a professional family who had huge expectations of her -it COULD have been a golden opportunity- but she preferred the warmth and acceptance she felt within her biological family. Such was the adoptive mother's determination that her's was the right path for her daughter, there was never going to be a happy resolution. How similar is this case to that of the Bamber's...................and, indeed, my own?




I can only go by my experience and knowledge, and I’ve never come across ANY couples who decide to adopt so that in 40 odd years time their child will look after them in their old age.

You’re suggesting these parents are selfish, possibly lazy, only thinking of themselves when they get older — so decide to have all the trials and tribulations raising a family brings to everyone (adopted or not); the huge expense; lack of freedom etc...when none of us can read into the future; have no idea if we’ll die before our time; no idea if our children decide to emigrate; no idea about how our futures will turn out, but decide to adopt a child as a form of insurance that if we’re lucky enough to get old we’ll have them at our beck and call.

I’m afraid that doesn’t make sense to me.

And whilst it’s true that we’re all genetically wired to want our own flesh and blood, that doesn’t mean we’re incapable of loving.

We love our pets, don’t we?

We love our spouses.

We love our close friends.

We’re not biologically related but we still love them.


Some parents adopt children when they already have their own. Some parents adore children and want to give less fortunate children a warm, loving home. Look at Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt: they’ve adopted three children and have three biological children too. Although no-one knows, going by what you read and see in the pictures, those adopted children always look happy, appear secure, and are obviously loved. I’m sure Angeline and Brad didn’t adopt them so they could care for them when they get old!

You’re also forgetting that not all adopted children are just “given away” by an unloving mother. Some mothers are forced to if they’re young teenagers. Some are forced to if they’re unfit. Just because a child has been adopted it doesn’t mean the mother wasn’t heartbroken and fought to keep them.

And take orphans. If they tragically lose their parents and a loving couple adopt them, does that mean they won’t bond and love each other because their biological parents are dead? Even animals: dogs, birds, apes etc will adopt an orphaned pup, or even steal one at times.

I agree it must play on a child’s mind why they were adopted, which is why most parents keep it from them until they’re old enough to understand. It’s terribly sad that any child should have to be adopted, and thankfully, in this day and age with contraception etc, there’s fewer babies needing homes.

I certainly believe it’s far better for a child to be adopted by a warm, stable family rather than being brought up by neglectful parents who are alcoholics, abusive, drug addicted and living on sink estates. Likewise, I think anything is better than for a child being brought up in a children’s home where they’re often subjected to abuse, bullying and have no-one at all who’s close to them and cares.


Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline ISpyWithMyEye

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #69 on: June 20, 2020, 12:26:53 PM »
You're entitled to an opinion so long as you acknowledge it is an opinion. You have an unfortunate habit of posting your opinions as if they are facts. Your above statement, for example, would have benefitted from having the phrase 'in my opinion' added.

Women have been known to get pregnant because all their friends are doing it, because time is running out or to try to heal a failing relationship. Adoption may be considered for the same reasons.


IN MY OPINION the women who get pregnant because all their friends are doing it are often teenage girls.

Older mothers whose biological clock is ticking may try and get pregnant before it’s too late, which proves they must have maternal feelings and want to procreate.

In some rare cases a woman may get pregnant to try and save her marriage, which is wrong, and often fails...


But none of those mentioned would be accepted for adoption. Have you ever heard of a teenage girl adopting a baby/toddler or child? It can’t happen. Nor can it happen if a woman is getting older and doesn’t have the home life needed for a child to be raised in.

Again, I go back to the fact, and it is, that families with biological children can have just as many problems as adopted families can. They may manifest themselves in different ways, but it doesn’t mean the children aren’t loved.

Sheila absolutely adored Nevill, as he did her. In CAL’s book she states how Sheila loved dressing up, proudly holding her dad’s arm as he took her with him to functions. He too was incredibly proud of her and showed off her Bacardi advertisement to his colleagues and workers; they were very close and loved each other dearly.

I suspect IN MY OPINION that Jeremy was jealous of Sheila. He wasn’t capable of feeling love — he told Julie that (cite: CAL’s book) and said he knew there was something wrong with him.
Seeking Justice for June & Nevill Bamber, Sheila Caffell & her two six-year-old twin boys who were shot dead in their heads by Psychopath, JEREMY BAMBER who must NEVER be released.

Offline APRIL


Offline Caroline

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #71 on: June 20, 2020, 12:52:35 PM »

I entirely agree with those sentiments. Adoption, for the most part, IS a second choice. It's never at the top of anyone's life plan. Small wonder, then, if some adopted children feel as if they're second best.

I know it must be hard to take but how could it be anything else? I guess the act of adoption is a second choice but the child is the first choice from that option. I suppose it depends on motive for adoption - in some cases it doesn't seem to be out of a need  to love the child.

Offline APRIL

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #72 on: June 20, 2020, 01:50:00 PM »
I know it must be hard to take but how could it be anything else? I guess the act of adoption is a second choice but the child is the first choice from that option. I suppose it depends on motive for adoption - in some cases it doesn't seem to be out of a need  to love the child.


I doubt it's a problem that can be solved, Caroline. Perhaps the best we can hope for is that it's one which is acknowledged.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #73 on: June 20, 2020, 03:20:01 PM »

I doubt it's a problem that can be solved, Caroline. Perhaps the best we can hope for is that it's one which is acknowledged.

There are clearly people who don't have any idea of the problems associated with adoption. In the past it was thought that church-going, financially stable people with a desire for a child was all that was required. I think there's a greater awareness these days that more is needed.

Sheila Bamber was quite clear that her adoptive mother was unable to meet her emotional needs, despite being seen as an ideal candidate by the authorities.
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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lies about Sheila's mental health
« Reply #74 on: June 20, 2020, 04:27:07 PM »
There are clearly people who don't have any idea of the problems associated with adoption. In the past it was thought that church-going, financially stable people with a desire for a child was all that was required. I think there's a greater awareness these days that more is needed.

Sheila Bamber was quite clear that her adoptive mother was unable to meet her emotional needs, despite being seen as an ideal candidate by the authorities.

I think June's strongly held religious beliefs need factoring in too:

"Mc Whinnie also refers to her study about the conditions of religious affiliation for prospective adopters. Her study again shows that other factors are important here, and it should not be assumed that because the adopters are members of a church they would make sympathetic adopters. In fact it would seem important to assess particularly carefully the attitudes of those who hold very rigid religious beliefs since these, if unduly puritanical, might lead them to finding difficulty in accepting illegitimacy and the child born to unmarried parents"
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?