Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories

[cathythe sceptic]

I think that Sheila's 'mental issues' for want of a better expression have been done to death on the pro bamber forum and it is really a waste of time interms of trying to deflect away from jb's guilt, and is ,imo,rather disrespectful to her memory - she was murdered and her children were murdered.If there had been anything,anything at all in her medical record to give weight to a diagnosis of the kind of psychosis that may have made her a killer,I'm certain this would have been exploited to the hilt by jb's barristers at his trial  -- this is the sort of thing barristers normally expoit to the hilt.If new info.  re her own condition or,re 'mothers who kill,due to their medication being halved and this leading to murderous psychosis in all cases' had emerged since,then,with the appropriate expert testimony this could have been part of jb's 2002 appeal or formed a key part of his CCRC submissions BUT it hasn't,as far as I'm aware.Therefore I would say it's abit of a non-starter,which doesn't seem to stop some of the ladies on the other forum from making some startling diagnostic assertions!

However,Abs,I do think has been very measured in what she has said and has never said anything less than respectful about Sheila,and this remains a very nice forum to have a proper discussion on,whatever one's views on jb's guilt or innocence

[Andrea]

Abs, point of view is welcome on here, always will be. She is measured in her posts. even if i disagree with them!

[only me]

I agree, Cathy.  I think the facts as they stand exonerate Sheila - attempting to recreate her diagnosis after quarter of a century without the benefit of qualifications or having met her is can only ever be speculation.  I mean that completely respectfully to all concerned, but even a qualified Psychiatrist would usually balk at offering a diagnosis on a patient he had never met.

I'm afraid that until someone can offer me a logical explanation as to why Sheila was found in the relatively clean state she was, I just can't believe that she was responsible.  Her psychiatric history matters not to me.   

[starryian]

Some very good points are being made here but I hope that this forum is not going down the route of the blue lot and getting aggressive with the perceived opposition. I do not agree with ABS but she has a point of view and she does not indulge in the sort of immature abuse which seems to have become an increasing feature of the other forum. I know the people who spoke to Sheila on the telephone during the evening prior to the murders and they  are people of great integrity who also knew Seila very well. She was reported to be in a normal mental state and enthusiastic about planned outings with the twins for the succeeding two days.

I am with you on that one Dillon. I think the tolerence of the opinions of others is what separates this forum from the other. I have spoken to people on there that seem to lose the plot if they are challenged. Grahame Belton is a particularly severe case and just cannot see the hypocrisy in what he is saying. As much as I disagree with their opinions on this case I would defend their rights to express them openly and without prejudice, to the hilt.
Winston Churchill once wrote 'The truth emerges from the clash of adverse opinions' Long may it remain so.

[cathythe sceptic]

Oh Gosh, sorry I didn't mean to sound aggressive -- if I came over that way,I apologize

Perhaps its the authoritarian ex-teacher in me,really don't mean to cause offence

[Nicholas]

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[starryian]

I found this little beaut on Bambers 'Campaign For Freedom' website.
If readers could read it long enough and resist the urge to projectile vomit, you would immediately appreciate the uncanny ability of the writer to twist of the truth to such an extent as to make it appear to be a completely different case and completely different people being discussed. I quote

'Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask. This made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge, the only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread, he ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers'[/i]

It gets worse............much worse..

In regards to his inappropriate nights out and partying after the murders, the writer comes up with this little gem....
'Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a lot after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.” Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief'

Thoughts anyone?...................

[Dillon]

I found this little beaut on Bambers 'Campaign For Freedom' website.
If readers could read it long enough and resist the urge to projectile vomit, you would immediately appreciate the uncanny ability of the writer to twist of the truth to such an extent as to make it appear to be a completely different case and completely different people being discussed. I quote

'Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask. This made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge, the only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread, he ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers'[/i]

It gets worse............much worse..

In regards to his inappropriate nights out and partying after the murders, the writer comes up with this little gem....
'Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a lot after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.” Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief'

Thoughts anyone?...................

Too right, Starryian. Bamber has one suspects a pretty small band of obsessed supporters who will go to any lengths to manipulate the truth. Grief .... expressed in grabbing as much of his deceased family's assets as possible, as quickly as possible, foreign holidays, indulgent boozing, expensive meals, drug buying expedition etc. !!! Come off it guys. You are living on a different planet. This is grossly abnormal behaviour.... very sick and evil.  Having come across grief at close quarters in people who have suffered loss in some dreadful traumatic event such as a road accident, I have never come across this sort of so called " grief " reaction.

I also find the continuous raking over of Sheila's past, family and mental health history nauseating by another little group of posters on the Bamber forum, " April 1",  " Egap1", the not very bright " Lookout " etc very weird and obsessional. All backed up with pseudo sociological and psychological mumbo jumbo. They seem desperate to prove that Sheila could have been capable of the murders completely in the face of the evidence so well outlined by you and others on this forum. They go on an on and on and on , round and round the same loop., just reinforcing each others distorted perceptions. Fair debate and discussion is one thing but the behaviour of this little clique on the Bamber forum imo is indicative of mental health issues on their part.  And where do they find the time ? The only good thing is that they are killing off that forum.... it is just so tedious. Some of the more reasonable posters there must find it very depressing and the good Mr Bellis ? He must think, how on earth did I get mixed up with this crowd of cranks ? Is it really worth it and how can I bale out without losing face ?   

[starryian]

I found this little beaut on Bambers 'Campaign For Freedom' website.
If readers could read it long enough and resist the urge to projectile vomit, you would immediately appreciate the uncanny ability of the writer to twist of the truth to such an extent as to make it appear to be a completely different case and completely different people being discussed. I quote

'Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask. This made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge, the only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread, he ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers'[/i]

It gets worse............much worse..

In regards to his inappropriate nights out and partying after the murders, the writer comes up with this little gem....
'Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a lot after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper “I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow – nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.” Brett tried to keep Jeremy’s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief'

Thoughts anyone?...................

Too right, Starryian. Bamber has one suspects a pretty small band of obsessed supporters who will go to any lengths to manipulate the truth. Grief .... expressed in grabbing as much of his deceased family's assets as possible, as quickly as possible, foreign holidays, indulgent boozing, expensive meals, drug buying expedition etc. !!! Come off it guys. You are living on a different planet. This is grossly abnormal behaviour.... very sick and evil.  Having come across grief at close quarters in people who have suffered loss in some dreadful traumatic event such as a road accident, I have never come across this sort of so called " grief " reaction.

I also find the continuous raking over of Sheila's past, family and mental health history nauseating by another little group of posters on the Bamber forum, " April 1",  " Egap1", the not very bright " Lookout " etc very weird and obsessional. All backed up with pseudo sociological and psychological mumbo jumbo. They seem desperate to prove that Sheila could have been capable of the murders completely in the face of the evidence so well outlined by you and others on this forum. They go on an on and on and on , round and round the same loop., just reinforcing each others distorted perceptions. Fair debate and discussion is one thing but the behaviour of this little clique on the Bamber forum imo is indicative of mental health issues on their part.  And where do they find the time ? The only good thing is that they are killing off that forum.... it is just so tedious. Some of the more reasonable posters there must find it very depressing and the good Mr Bellis ? He must think, how on earth did I get mixed up with this crowd of cranks ? Is it really worth it and how can I bale out without losing face ?   

Good points Dillon,
I agree they are very misguided. If people read what they write very carefully, they seem to have developed the ability to completely ignore any points that clearly point in other directions. I believe that some of it has to do with the chance to show their mettle: they align themselves against the world in a heated defense of their idol. This may appear to be a very strange psychological phenomenon, but it is common amongst supporters where the object of their affections is clearly guilty. The more guilty they are, the more vociferous the supporter becomes in their efferts to defend them, and the theories become increasingly ad absurdum . An ever-increasing spiral of dependence and delusion is soon in place. Often the last people to recognise this is the supporter themselves.
However, most of them are well-meaning and truly want to believe that this person is not what they appear. Unfortunately, Jeremy Bamber is a highly manipulative psychopath and convincing these people that he is innocent is child's play to him. Bamber is a very skilled liar and is adept at painting himself as the victim (a very common trait amongst psychopaths) in order to elicit sympathy. He has the ability to decompartmentalise whole sections of his life. He is able to 'lock away' the memories of what he had done in the reccesses of his mind and act as though they never occurred. This is one of the reasons why a psychopath so can easily defeat a polygraph test. Many psychopaths have this ability. Their mind is akin to a computer; they are able to simply switch hard drives or use 'System Restore' when it suits them. They can 'decompartmentalise' different areas of their life according to the situation they are in at any given moment. Bamber, it has to be said, is a master of this.

[Angelo222]

I found this little beaut on Bambers 'Campaign For Freedom' website.
If readers could read it long enough and resist the urge to projectile vomit, you would immediately appreciate the uncanny ability of the writer to twist of the truth to such an extent as to make it appear to be a completely different case and completely different people being discussed. I quote

'Other officers detail in their statements that Jeremy was crying and was visibly upset and distressed. When the doctor arrived he gave him a sip of whiskey from a hip flask. This made Jeremy sick. When they took Jeremy to his home, police insisted he eat something to stop him from retching. He had little food in the house and went to the fridge, the only thing he could find was bacon which he put into the microwave and then into two pieces of bread, he ate this with the encouragement of the police officers and so is the kernel of the myth of the jolly Jeremy Bamber sitting at this kitchen table eating a hearty cooked breakfast with police officers'[/i]

It gets worse............much worse..

In regards to his inappropriate nights out and partying after the murders, the writer comes up with this little gem....
'Brett Collins, Julie and Jeremy went out drinking together a lot after the tragedy, Jeremy Bamber recently said in an interview with the Mirror Newspaper ?I am certainly not alone in turning to alcohol in sorrow ? nor in seeking the company of others who cared about me.? Brett tried to keep Jeremy?s spirits high with good humour and Jeremy even joined his friend, the twins father, Colin Caffell on the 9th of August where he, Jeremy, Julie, Brett and three others went for Chinese meal and then on to a concert as both Jeremy and Colin tried to put a brave face on their grief'

Thoughts anyone?...................

Too right, Starryian. Bamber has one suspects a pretty small band of obsessed supporters who will go to any lengths to manipulate the truth. Grief .... expressed in grabbing as much of his deceased family's assets as possible, as quickly as possible, foreign holidays, indulgent boozing, expensive meals, drug buying expedition etc. !!! Come off it guys. You are living on a different planet. This is grossly abnormal behaviour.... very sick and evil.  Having come across grief at close quarters in people who have suffered loss in some dreadful traumatic event such as a road accident, I have never come across this sort of so called " grief " reaction.

I also find the continuous raking over of Sheila's past, family and mental health history nauseating by another little group of posters on the Bamber forum, " April 1",  " Egap1", the not very bright " Lookout " etc very weird and obsessional. All backed up with pseudo sociological and psychological mumbo jumbo. They seem desperate to prove that Sheila could have been capable of the murders completely in the face of the evidence so well outlined by you and others on this forum. They go on an on and on and on , round and round the same loop., just reinforcing each others distorted perceptions. Fair debate and discussion is one thing but the behaviour of this little clique on the Bamber forum imo is indicative of mental health issues on their part.  And where do they find the time ? The only good thing is that they are killing off that forum.... it is just so tedious. Some of the more reasonable posters there must find it very depressing and the good Mr Bellis ? He must think, how on earth did I get mixed up with this crowd of cranks ? Is it really worth it and how can I bale out without losing face ?   

They are obviously desperate to paint Bamber as whiter than white.  Stan Jones and Julie Mugford both confirmed independently that when Bamber first met up with Mugford at his house in Goldhanger he was caught smirking inappropriately when Jones entered the room unexpectedly.  I would love to see them explain that one!

[abs]

About the partying, I have done that myself when I was 22 and my fiance suddenly died. I was devastated, but I partied more than I had ever done before, it was my way of reacting to his death. I couldn´t be alone at all.
To me those things do not prove anything about the murders. You don´t stop eating when there is a death/deaths in your family, you just don´t.

[starryian]

About the partying, I have done that myself when I was 22 and my fiance suddenly died. I was devastated, but I partied more than I had ever done before, it was my way of reacting to his death. I couldn´t be alone at all.
To me those things do not prove anything about the murders. You don´t stop eating when there is a death/deaths in your family, you just don´t.

I am afraid Abs that this is not what the point was about. 'Partying' as you call it (an American phrase meaning to 'enjoy oneself in the company of one or more people - totally different to the British meaning)
Bamber didn't 'party' he went out and enjoyed himself, spent lavishly went on holiday trips, just about everything a person can do to prove that are are not grieving. I know people grieve in different ways, but I am now a little tired of hearing this argument applied in extremis and ad infinitum when making excuses for his callous behaviour. Of course , no it doesn't make him a murderer - but it makes it a whole lot more likely doesnt it? It is standard behaviour and is usually a dead giveaway that some simply doesn't care. This is how other human being know that things are not right Abs. We can talk forever what his lack of grieving may mean - to most, it was an good indicator of his utter contempt for his family. Bamber was enjoying himself not grieving, there is a distinct difference. Most of those that knew him said so and testified to that fact. Thats is evidence enough.
Incidently yous tated that you dont stop eating.............On that point you are completely incorrect. On the death of my friends mother she was so grief-stricken that she didn't eat. It took a trip to the hospital and presciption drugs to help her regain her appetite.
Abs I am intrigued as to why you are constantly making unlikely excuses for Bamber's acts but never seem to add weight or comment on those that support his guilt? I understand that you are not convinced of his guilt. I respect that and support anyone's stance, but you seem to be arguing from a standpoint of his innocence or at least give that impression. Nothing wrong with that, but please be clear. 

[abs]

I know the difference between partying and enjoying yourself.

[Dillon]

About the partying, I have done that myself when I was 22 and my fiance suddenly died. I was devastated, but I partied more than I had ever done before, it was my way of reacting to his death. I couldn´t be alone at all.
To me those things do not prove anything about the murders. You don´t stop eating when there is a death/deaths in your family, you just don´t.

I agree with Starryian about your statement about not eating. I have had lots of experience of grief reactions in a professional capacity, as well as in the context of family and friends. Some people do stop eating or at least eat very little under these circumstances so with respect your categorical statement is incorrect. Bamber's behaviour for a considerable time after the murders may not prove his guilt but is imo highly abnormal .

[Joanne]

Abs, I agree with you.
I'm probably one of the abnormal one's that people keep refering too. I didn't break down and/or particularly change anything when I've lost 3 out of 4 Grandparents. I loved them and I thought of myself very lucky to have had a full set of grandparents up to the age of 34. I was however devestated that my Granddad suffered at the end because no-one deserves to die like he did. I suppose they were old and they'd had a mainly good and long life.
I was devestated whe I lost my neighbour last year at 37 years old, my best friend when she was 40 and a number of other friends young but again, I can't say I really did anything I wouldn't normally do from day to day and it was fairly much from an outsiders view 'business as usual' but thats not to say people who show no outward signs of grief aren't suffering, all it means is it's not on public display.
I don't know if it's wise to judge a book by it's cover, just go where the evidence takes you.