The brutal beating of Nevill in the kitchen.

[scipio_usmc]

Any lead/discolouration would be washed off by showering.
DB states in the following "Coupled with the fact that she hadn't had any experience with guns [reluctantly adds] or very little".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo      @ 6.20 in

SC no doubt spent time as child with NB walking around the fields shooting.  SC was a farmers daughter.  Children pick up things without having to be sat down and shown.  You don't need to be a nuclear physicist to load the said rifle and fire it.  SC was from a birth family of academics and privately educated you seem to want  to think of her as someone with learning difficulties.

You have no evidence she showered and bathed nor any reason why she would.  You can't find a single case where someone decided to commit murder-suicide and after killing their family took a bath.  It doesn't happen it is a stupid suggestion the best anyone could come up with is to raise bathing before ritualistic suicide which no one alleges was the case.  Showering and bathing doesn't get rid of evidence on clothing anyway.  The killer's clothing would have been covered with GSR, high velocity spatter and medium velocity spatter and gloves were used.  No such clothing was found at WHF. 

Your simplistic claims about guns have already been addressed and you have no rebuttal you just go back to the same stupid mantra over and over again.

Seeing someone shoot a gun doens't mean that you will be able to load and shoot it yourself.  Iguarantee if I fire my semi-auto sniper rifle that you will not notice the steps I take asde from simply pulling the trigger and walking aorund me sometimes doesn't mean I will even perform such in your presence let alone you will understand and appreciate the subtle acts.  Lynette Fromme grew up around guns and she failed to chamber  around and was thus disarmed without a shot having been fired when she tried to kill president Ford.  What rebuttal have you presented to this.  Nothing you just ignore it and repeat the same mantra she would have known what to do no matter what because you actually don't care about the truth only pretending SHeila did it so you can present your psychology BS.

What semi-auto guns did they have on the farm?  NONE until the murder weapon purchased at the end of 1984. 
So if she was busy wathcing her father growing up and so forth then she would have seen him fire shotguns not a semi-auto.  You ignore this time and again because it absolutely kills you.  Walking with her father as he used a shotgun would not enable her to know how to use the murder weapon no matter how carefully she watched her father. Your simplistic she would have to know how to shoot any and all gun because she lived on a farm is simply pathetic and absurd.

The only thing worse is suggesting it is cake to just easily group shots and neve rmiss your first time using a wepaon you are unfamiliar with while in the middle of a crazy rage. 

Even if we assume that the broken crockery was not caused by the raid team, as per soc pics it amounted to just a few large pieces.  The glass lampshade was unlikely to be crystal glass and again perhaps a 2/3 pieces?  Unless it was in her path she would simply avoided it.  You realise that NB was also barefooted and he too had no cuts to his feet.

 

The killer broke the lamp by being right under it.  Nevill was knocked down while the killer was supposedly standing on this mess swinging a rifle at Nevill battering him unconscious and then walked all around the kitchen afterwards.  Nevill wasn't walking around was he? In fact the killed stepped on Nevill's feet and kicked his knees bruising them, probably in an effort to get him off his feet. 

You have no idea when and how the stock broke.  To claim it would cause hand damage is absurd.

 

The nature of the break demonstrates how it was being used.  It was being used in a motion that demosntrates the back of the stock was being used to bash and the way that is done is by holding the weapon with one hand on the fore grip and the other on the narrow area of the stock. 

Aside from no evidence the weapon was instead used as you claimed wither her holding the barrel that would still result in injury.  The knurled grip of the moderator would cause damage to the arms and the iron sights would damage the wrist and hands.  You never think things through you just make simplistic claims based on nothing other than your agenda.

   
All removed by showering with stained clothes in the buckets.

Again a completely absurd claim not supported by anything. You have no evidence she showered and bathed nor any reason why she would.  You can't find a single case where someone decided to commit murder-suicide and after killing their family took a bath.  It doesn't happen it is a stupid suggestion the best anyone could come up with is to raise bathing before ritualistic suicide which no one alleges was the case.  Showering and bathing doesn't get rid of evidence on clothing anyway.  The killer's clothing would have been covered with GSR, high velocity spatter and medium velocity spatter and gloves were used.  No such clothing was found at WHF.  The buck you cite contianed 2 pairs of panties and leggings all with the crotch stained thus indicative of being menstruated in during the day some time. Probably before she bought tampons and she went shopping that very day and had a supply of tampons including one inserted inside her when killed!

Where is the gown or blouse with GSR and blood spatter from the victims?  It wasn't in the buckets so try again. 

   
I don't believe that the silencer ever left the gun cupboard on that fateful night.  Her blood may have been inside and if it was then I believe it was deliberately contaminated by EP with blood from SC's sample handed to EP by Dr V.

What you believe doesn't matter what you can provide evidence of matters.  You have no evidentiary basis to assert such happened.  You have no rational basis to believe it happened.  The evidence says it did and unless you can refute that evidence it is a thorn that prevents your claims from being taken seriously.  Just dismissing it because you don't want to face it doesn't make it go away.

 
Why do you think NB only had linear wounds to his right arm?

He had skin ripped off a finger, bruising to his elbow and his forearm had "relatively linear" wounds.  The butt of the stock jabbing into his arm made the gauges. Yhe flat bottom, top or sides of the stock do not make gauges like that.  It was made by the butt of the rifle glancing off and digging in.



The buttplate has ridges and can thus gauge but worse loo at the corners of the butt



Nevill raised his right arm blocking his face with it. Elbow was facing to his right and his hand to his left.  The killer was striking his arm with the butt of the rifle.   

 
Given the shot NB received on the stairs ie downward it would seem SC followed NB downstairs.  Why did NB head for the kitchen?  He thought he could continue the conversation he started with JB before he run upstairs when he heard SC firing shots?  To escape and raise the alarm and to deter JB from entering?

He didn't receive any shots on the stairs.  If he was hit while running away down the stairs that would even be worse to try to claim Sheila made such a shot.  There is zero evidence of a shot on the stairs.  The shell casing would have been at the bottom of the stairs not the top if a killer were aiming at him as he was below running down the stairs. The killer would have shot him in the back and the only shots that coudl have been fired from the top of the stairs as he ran down based on angle of impact is one of the shots in the top of his head which woudl have made him collapse and which Vanzis said was clearly fired int he kitchen as all 4 shots were fired at the same range and tightly grouped and had they been delivered elsewher ehe would have passed out and not made it ot the kitchen.  the shell caseing against the wall in the hall was somehow stuck to a shoe of either the killer or police and tracked up there because 4 shots were fired in the kitchen and only 3 casings were there.  The only odd casing was in the hall and it could not have gotten in that location unless someone were shooting in that direction from th vicinity of Sheila's room.

The other 4 shots were all side profile shots and thus could not have been fired from someone standing behind Nevill so can't have been delivered on the stairs.  Nevill's left side was facing the killer when the shots were fired. 

The killer fired 11 rounds at June and Nevill in the master bedroom.  That alone proves it was Jeremy, Sheial would not have loaded the gun to capacity.  The gun was empty when either Nevill fled the bedroom with his killer giving chase or alternatively he chased his killer.  Since he probably did not move that fast and left blood on the walls it is quite possible he was tailing his killer and could not catch up uintil the kitchen.  It seems unlikely his killer would not catch up sooner. Why would his killer go the the kitchen?  To get more ammo which Nevill woudl have every reason to try to stop.  Why would Nevill go to the kitchen?  Most likely to grab a weapon be it a knife, gun or something else available in the kitchen.  The guns were stored in  the back kitchen AKA office kitchen.

 
Dr V states NB  put up a "spirited defense".  He does not mention a "struggle".

A spirited defense is a struggle.  It certainly refutes your claim Nevill passed out and his limp body was bludgeoned.

If you want to claim the above you need to rule SC out by providing the following measurements to the nearest mm:

Height from kitchen floor to lowest point of lampshade
Height of SC
Arm length/reach of SC
Length of rifle with and without silencer (Now kindly provided by Myster)

I believe EP fabricated the scratches after the tragedy.

I don't need to rule her out.  The moderator had ot be attached to break the lampshade.  That could have been accomplished by Sheila or Jeremy fighting with Nevill over it though much more likely Jeremy since he was taller and the higher the gun the easier to take away from sheila.  The moderator attached period sinks Jeremy by your own admission that if it was attached then Jeremy is guilty so I have zero need to say she was too short to have broken the light with the moderator attached.   

You need to provide evidence that the moderator was not attached and that the blood and paint were planted.  you can't you have not even a detialed theory of how it came about let alone any evidence it is possible to plant blood in the manner it was found.  You just refuse to believe the evidence.  Taht doens't make it go away it just akes your opinion baseless.

You don't know when and how the stock was damaged.  How could SC have told  JB anything?

We do indeed know when and how.  The broken piece was in the kitchen so it obviously was broke off while Nevill was being bludgeoned not some other time prior to the murders especially since the gun by Jeremy's own admission was unbroken prior ot the murders. 

The way it was sheered off indicates the butt striking something hard and dorcing the stock into the receiver.  This was all explained already.

You have nothing to rebut my points or evidence anymore than you have anything to establish the evidence on and in the mdoerator was planted.  You just dismiss anythign you don't want to face.  taht doesn't refute it though and doesn't make it go away.

The other rooms you refer to were bedrooms and the stairs.  Not too much to break in those rooms.  The other victims were perhaps not beaten as they didn't try to  resist either verbally or physically.

Those with disorganised attachments are capable of extreme rage, aggression and violence as a result of the initial trauma.

There was plenty to break in the bedrooms and knock over.  There were also victims to attack and bash in the bedrooms.  Why only Nevill when he was the man who clamed her down instantly in the past?  You have nothing at all to answer any of these questions. 

Only the most dishonest Jerem supporters refuse to admit that Nevill was beaten because the killer was out of ammunition and needed to reload but Nevill was trying to disarm the killer and the killer had to knock him out in order ot be able to reload and then be able to shoot him dead.

[Holly Goodhead]

It is claimed that had SC been responsible she would have incurred some damage to her nails/varnish. However there is no scientific evidence for this hypothesis.  Dr V was asked to comment on SC's nails.  He stated it was outside of his expertise and was the province of a ballistics expert. 

Nails are made of keratin - one of the strongest biological properties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratin

The US military (seems to be common to other countries) stipulate female nail length is no longer than one quarter of an inch from the finger tip:

"All personnel will keep fingernails clean and neatly trimmed. Females will not exceed a nail length of 1/4 inch, as measured from the tip of the finger. Females will trim nails shorter if the commander determines that the longer length detracts from the military image, presents a safety concern, or interferes with the performance of duties."

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/army/a/armygrooming_3.htm

Rules also apply to varnish:

"Females will not wear shades of lipstick and nail polish that distinctly contrast with their complexion, that detract from the uniform, or that are extreme. Some examples of extreme colors include, but are not limited to, purple, gold, blue, black, white, bright (fire-engine) red, khaki, camouflage colors, and fluorescent colors. Soldiers will not apply designs to nails or apply two-tone or multi-tone colors to nails."

If females in the US miliatry are likely to break/chip their nails/varnish during the course of their duties surely they would wear their nails much shorter than the one quarter of an inch allowed?  Or are we to assume that US female soldiers are s...ks who have chipped broken nails/varnish?

SC's nails even featured as an aspect of the prosecution's case.  Here's the extract from 2002 appeal document:

"f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged."

And yet as far as I am aware, other than WPC Jeapes, Glynnis Howard (scientist FSS) Claire Powell author of Murder at White House Farm - Story  of Jeremy Bamber, the WHF case has been devoid of females acting in a professional capacity.

Female Input:

WPC Jeapes (? Manning ?)
Claire Powell - Author
Glynnis Howard - Scientist

Male Input:

All EP excl 1 above
All legal representatives to date
All scientists and other expert witnesses excl 1 above
All journalists
All authors excl 1 above

This extends to Blue and Red where we have males who by and large attempt to dominate.  Surely this cannot be right in 2014?  Would the case be where it is today if those capable of influencing the direction had been gender balanced?  When I say where the case is today I mean would females have gone along with 4 murders/1 suicide without first assessing all aspects? 

Would a female perspective:

Make no difference?
Make a difference negatively?
Make a difference positively?

 

 >@@(*&)









 

[Holly Goodhead]

By George you finally got it.

Hand eye coordination/depth perception required to drive and shoot accurately is not quite the same as applying makeup. Though we have no idea if she pained her own nails or not even someone with Parkinson's can do that it simply will take longer and be more messy than the average woman.

My sister-in-law didn't help her kids do any of the things you mentioned ever and not because she was unable she was just too lazy and made my nieces and nephew fend for themselves early on in life. You seem to be assuming she did more than we know (though these menial tasks could be accomplised by someone with dexterity issues since time is not of the essence, trying to laod a gun before someone comes to while in a rage very queckly shaking and doing so without chipping nails is hard to imagine for anyone honest) If we go by what the boys told Colin she didn't help them much and they felt neglected. How much of that they made up we don't know though the part about her being vacant and ignoring people and the like seems to be a common observation.   

Her odd behavior was diagnosed as being over sedated.  We don't have much of a frame of reference to assess how she was with her kids before she was in such condition.       

In any event the hand eye coordination of shooting is far different and if you have tremors like is typical of patients on Haldol it simply is going to be worse.

What is most amusing to me is how the wealth of information about how schizophrenics are unable to plan and carry out killings like this is completely ignored though you care so much supposedly about the health issues.  All you really care about is broadcasting your silly psychology theories and that requires the pretense Sheila did it.
 

People can and often do miss at close range.  Particularly people who never fired a gun before or the particular gun before.  People with dexterity issues only makes it even worse.  Nevill was moving around during some of the shots and 2 such shots were fired several feet away. 

Only one wound was determined to be a contact wound- Sheila's fatal shot.  Only one wound on each of the parents was assessed to even possibly have been close enough to result in drawback though even each of these wounds was seen as not likely to have been fired so close.  Most wounds were not as close as you want to pretend.  How is it that people firing wildly into crowds right next to them manage to miss so much?  Firing wildly often results in misses even if you are close. 

Firing wildly is not going to result in tight groupings like in the head of the twins and Nevill. Vanezis is the one who assessed the wounds and noted that even based on the distance of the shots someone would need to be skilled with the wepaon.

There is no evidence Sheila ever fired a gun period, no evidence Sheila ever fired a gun like the murder weapon let alone the murder wepaon.  The first semiauto weapon ever on the farm was the murder weapon which was purchase November 30, 1984 so only months before the murders.

She would not know she needed to chamber a round let alone know how, that alone woudl have floiled her liek it did Lynette Fromme when she tried to kill US president Ford. She would not know how to release the magazine.  She certainly would not have known how to load 11 rounds in the magazine. The killer went into the master bedroom with it loaded to capacity (11 rounds) shooting June 7 times and Nevill 4.  Shooting wildly in a rage she would not have been able to hit every time. 

You want to live in some fantasy land to pretend using a gun is just easy and instictive and she did it instead of actually looking at all the evidence.

The shots were close enough that she would have had high velocity spatter on her clothing and body though and of course would have had medium velocity spatter from Nevill's beating.

No problem you say she washed and changed her clothes though such woudl make no sense at all, there are no examples of that happeneing ever outside of ritualistic killings and there are no clothes with spatter and GSR that she could have changed out of.  That alone means you ar esunk because the clothes woudl have to be there that she change dout of.  To prove this you need the clothes that have spatter and GSR.  She would have needed to be wearing gloves to avoid leaving her prints in blood somewhere and to avoid damage to her hands.  Why would she wear them and where are they if she did?

What about the broken glass from the lampshade and broken crockery on the floor did she have magic feet?

The only way you can pretend she did it is by inoring all the evidence and making up things that make no sense and are not supported by any evidence at all.

Also ignoring the moderator evidence and insisting there was a giant conspiracy without any evidence and ignoring how her body had been moved and the bible opened and closed in her blood by the killer.

All so you can pretend she did it and then tell people about your silly psychology claims.
 
Another straw argument.  That seems all that Jeremy defenders are capable of.  I explain how her nails would break from during the struggle, especially when beating someone with a rifle and would chip from loading the magazine unless a female is very careful in how she did such and you talk about the firing of the gun.

As I mentioned on the blue board I know someone who broke her nail wile firing a gun.  Such happened only because she was careless and messing aorund.  Her finger slipped and she pulled the trigger with her nail instead of finger.  It broke. If a female pushes her figer against the trigger guard hard enough it could break too. If Sheila were wildly firing could she have chipped or broken her nails in one of these ways?  Yes.  How likely?  I don't know it depends on how wild and out of control she would be.

I care about the braeing because that is where she would have been left with cuts and scratches that would have for sure been found on her dead body and would have resulted in broken nails.  It is well documented that women chip and break nails during physical altercations but especially when wielding objects like the rifle.

For some reason Jeremy supporters keep imagining someone grabbing the gun by the barrel and swinging it like a sledge hammer.

1) the knurled end of the moderator would have scraped the killer
2) the iron sights would have scratch or cut the killer eithe rby the victim grabbing the weapon and pulling it in which case it would slide until the sights were against the hand of the killer and/or from the gun sliding and moving as the killer bashed it against something.  The barrel provides a poor grip. 
3) the gun would be top heavy holding it from the barrel with would make it unwieldy that not only would make it easy to fall out of the killer's hand when swinging it around worse it makes it easier to take away from the killer.
4) Had this actually happened then the stock would not have broken in the manner it did.  The stock broke by the wood stock being pushed against the metal receiver.  A piece sheered off because of the pressure between the buttplate and the metal receiver. If wielded in the manner claimed then the side of the stock would have been hit.  Had the side been used instead of the buttplate then it would not have broken the way it did.  Teh most likely break when using it in such manner is for it to break from the inside out.

The stock is only held on with a screw.  If you remove the trigger guard scre you can pull the stock off.  The receiver had a metal conical projection sticking off the rear.  The stock has a hole cut in it so it can slide onto this projection.  The trigger guard screw keeps it from coming off on its own. When the side of the stock is used as a hammer where is the pressure?  The pressure and tension is the wood around the hole being forced against the metal projection. So it will crack the stock from the hole outward hole.  It's not going to sheer a piece off the way it sheered.  That is indicative of the motion from real of the stock to front.

5) Instead of the stock breaking there would be a chance of the barrel being damaged or breaking away from from the rifle.  The gun breaks down here is the barrel:



The barrel slides into the receiver. Note the small portion of the barrel that slides in.

Wielding it like a sledge hammer has a good chance of ripping it out of the receiver.  If it is not ripped out it could instead warp the barrel or bend it which could be catastrophic if you then try to fire the weapon afterwards.

Since the barrel was not damaged, did not come free from the receiver and the stock did not break from the inside out it is obvious it was not wielded like a bat.   The damage indicates the back of the stock was being used when the stock broke and the person wielding it would have hand their hand in the narrow area of the stock in order to use the rifle in such manner and would have been damaged unless gloves were worn. 

Jeremy knew the gun broke down and how fragile the barrel was and also would not have gottena good grip from the barrel and his father could then have taken it away so he would not have used it as a hammer he would have used a butt stroke against his father and hat is how it broke- a butt stroke. If he really did lose his glove as he told Sheila then the most likely time for that would have been when the stock broke that would be what yanked it off. 
 

http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-and-asperger-syndrome-an-introduction/high-functioning-autism-and-asperger-syndrome-whats-the-difference.aspx

[Holly Goodhead]

Some claim that had SC been in the kitchen/responsible then she would have suffered cuts to her bare feet from the broken crockery and lampshade.  NB was found bare-footed in the kitchen and yet Dr V did not identify any cuts/abrasions etc to his feet.  >@@(*&)

[scipio_usmc]

Some claim that had SC been in the kitchen/responsible then she would have suffered cuts to her bare feet from the broken crockery and lampshade.  NB was found bare-footed in the kitchen and yet Dr V did not identify any cuts/abrasions etc to his feet.  >@@(*&)

NB wasn't running aorund on the broke crockery wildly attackign anyone wa she?

You assert Sheila was doing that but since you ignore eveyr single aspect including the lack of any clothing with spatter from he victims is is not surprising.

Try actually responding to my rebuttals of your points if you dare.

[John]

This from the 2002 Appeal:

71. The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon. The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful. A "pull-through" on the barrel of the rifle was conducted for any traces of blood within the weapon. There were none.

[patti]

Hi

What does KM positive mean. Does it mean human blood or blood from a certain type of blood for example A.  >@@(*&)

[scipio_usmc]

Hi

What does KM positive mean. Does it mean human blood or blood from a certain type of blood for example A.  >@@(*&)

Positive for blood using the Kastle Meyer blood test

[John]

As scipio-usmc posted above, the KM or Kastle-Meyer test merely determines whether a substance is blood.  You can read a bit more about it at the link below.  It would be really interesting to know if a DNA test has been done now to establish for sure that the blood on the rifle belonged to Nevill or even his assailant.  If such a LCN test hasn't been done it most certainly should have been.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastle–Meyer_test

[Myster]

Some claim that had SC been in the kitchen/responsible then she would have suffered cuts to her bare feet from the broken crockery and lampshade.  NB was found bare-footed in the kitchen and yet Dr V did not identify any cuts/abrasions etc to his feet.  >@@(*&)

Don't need to think very much about that one, do you Holly?  By the time the assailant had caught up with and started to bludgeon a bare-footed Nevill and before the shade was shattered, JB was on the table side of the kitchen where most of the broken glass/crockery fragments on the floor and the marks under the shelf are visible. Nevill was on the window side, (obvious from where his body ended up) where little if any broken pieces can be seen on the lino or matting in the "bucket" photo.

[John]

It is claimed that had SC been responsible she would have incurred some damage to her nails/varnish. However there is no scientific evidence for this hypothesis.  Dr V was asked to comment on SC's nails.  He stated it was outside of his expertise and was the province of a ballistics expert. 

Nails are made of keratin - one of the strongest biological properties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratin

The US military (seems to be common to other countries) stipulate female nail length is no longer than one quarter of an inch from the finger tip:

"All personnel will keep fingernails clean and neatly trimmed. Females will not exceed a nail length of 1/4 inch, as measured from the tip of the finger. Females will trim nails shorter if the commander determines that the longer length detracts from the military image, presents a safety concern, or interferes with the performance of duties."

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/army/a/armygrooming_3.htm

Rules also apply to varnish:

"Females will not wear shades of lipstick and nail polish that distinctly contrast with their complexion, that detract from the uniform, or that are extreme. Some examples of extreme colors include, but are not limited to, purple, gold, blue, black, white, bright (fire-engine) red, khaki, camouflage colors, and fluorescent colors. Soldiers will not apply designs to nails or apply two-tone or multi-tone colors to nails."

If females in the US miliatry are likely to break/chip their nails/varnish during the course of their duties surely they would wear their nails much shorter than the one quarter of an inch allowed?  Or are we to assume that US female soldiers are s...ks who have chipped broken nails/varnish?

SC's nails even featured as an aspect of the prosecution's case.  Here's the extract from 2002 appeal document:

"f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged."

And yet as far as I am aware, other than WPC Jeapes, Glynnis Howard (scientist FSS) Claire Powell author of Murder at White House Farm - Story  of Jeremy Bamber, the WHF case has been devoid of females acting in a professional capacity.

Female Input:

WPC Jeapes (? Manning ?)
Claire Powell - Author
Glynnis Howard - Scientist

Male Input:

All EP excl 1 above
All legal representatives to date
All scientists and other expert witnesses excl 1 above
All journalists
All authors excl 1 above

This extends to Blue and Red where we have males who by and large attempt to dominate.  Surely this cannot be right in 2014?  Would the case be where it is today if those capable of influencing the direction had been gender balanced?  When I say where the case is today I mean would females have gone along with 4 murders/1 suicide without first assessing all aspects? 

Would a female perspective:

Make no difference?
Make a difference negatively?
Make a difference positively?

 

 >@@(*&)

You forgot Julie and Susie whose inputs were crucial to the case.   

[John]

Dr Vanezis has always maintained that he is unable to confirm whether SC was murdered or took her own life.

My understanding of the role of a pathologist/autopsy is that his/her findings will mainly be based on a physical examination of a body not information imparted from others?

The wound to NB's left shoulder caused a comminuted fracture to the upper third  of the humerus.  On this basis I think Dr Vanezis was able to say with some certainty that the wound rendered NB's left arm totally impaired upon impact of the bullet/comminuted fracture.

May I ask what makes you so sure that a fight took place in the kitchen as that is not how I interpret it at all.

The autopsy was inconclusive thus why the pathologist was unable to say one way or another if the two wounds which Sheila suffered were inflicted by AN Other or self inflicted.  That said however, the substantial evidence gathered from the crime scene tells a different story.

As far as Nevill's wound to his arm is concerned, the pathologist can only give an opinion based on the autopsy.  Again, the very substantial evidence from the crime scene paints a wholly different picture.

One would have to be totally blind to evidence and the crime scene photos taken in the kitchen to come to such a conclusion that a fight of some sort didn't take place in the kitchen. Clearly Nevill was beaten up badly in the kitchen which leads to only one conclusion and that is that his killer ran out of ammunition.

[Holly Goodhead]

NB wasn't running aorund on the broke crockery wildly attackign anyone wa she?

You assert Sheila was doing that but since you ignore eveyr single aspect including the lack of any clothing with spatter from he victims is is not surprising.

Try actually responding to my rebuttals of your points if you dare.

"Who dares wins"  but there's not going to be anything "for your eyes only" 

Your post

Quote from: scipio_usmc on July 12, 2014, 05:33:34 PM

The killer and Nevill fought over the rifle. Think about 4 hands on the rifle pulling it in different directions. How would that particular rifle be tall enough to break the lampshade?  Wihtout the moderator attached the barrel will not extend above the heads of those struggling.  A struggle with Sheila would feature the gun lower than Jeremy because she was shorter.  Even with Jeremy and Nevill the barrel would have been below their heads not above.  The only way the gun would have been long enough is with the moderator attached.  The scratches to the aga confirm it was indeed attached as they struggled.

Above you claim that NB was engaged in struggle with his assailant with both using their hands to fight for control of the rifle (this is despite NB's left arm being totally impaired).  During this struggle you claim the glass lightshade was smashed.  According to you this rules SC out as she did not sustain any cuts to her feet.  And yet you refuse to accept that NB was also bare-footed and he too did not sustain any cuts to his feet.

You go further to rule out SC and claim she was not tall enough to smash the lightshade with the rifle (even though we have no idea how the lightshade was broken).  This is despite having no idea of:

Height from floor to lowest point of lampshade.
Height of SC and length of arm and reach

[Holly Goodhead]

You forgot Julie and Susie whose inputs were crucial to the case.   

Hello Boss 

No I didn't forget them.  My post made reference to those operating in a "professional capacity".  I will always maintain that this is a very important feature of the case ie lack of female professional input.  I am by no means some raving feminist who refuses to shave her legs either.

[Holly Goodhead]

As scipio-usmc posted above, the KM or Kastle-Meyer test merely determines whether a substance is blood.  You can read a bit more about it at the link below.  It would be really interesting to know if a DNA test has been done now to establish for sure that the blood on the rifle belonged to Nevill or even his assailant.  If such a LCN test hasn't been done it most certainly should have been.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastle–Meyer_test

Thank you for the KM link John and Scipio for bringing to our attention.  I am confused.  It appears the KM test was available from 1903 and yet the LCN DNA testing carried out in 2001/02 on the silencer was unable to identify the source of DNA ie blood etc  8-)(--)  Does this mean KM and LCN DNA cannot be used together to at least rule in/out blood being the source of DNA?  This is all getting beyond me and I think I am getting confused.