Three Door Moves

[misty]

At a slight tangent - was there any heating in the apartment?

[pathfinder73]

I agree that the door position observed by MO is likely to be identical to the door position observed by KM.

She said completely open not half-open as Gerry and Matt said.

At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.

[pathfinder73]

The Window Was Open.  Think about it.

It wasn't at 9:30 so that doesn't explain 2 door moves from ajar to half-open before 9:30.

[pegasus]

At a slight tangent - was there any heating in the apartment?

Good question. I think there is a vent stack in north east corner child bedroom just to right of window, might be HVAC? It is shown as unused space in one of the PJ plans of the apartment. Corresponding to one of those little services access doors outside the front door. Probably one at south end of apartment too.

[pegasus]

At 1:18 in this video, which BTW was filmed in the real apartment,  http://youtu.be/9e7ug0BfNy4?t=1m18s the door is shown already fairly open and not needing further opening, when the child wakes up and walks out of the bedroom into the lounge.

[Wonderfulspam]

At 1:18 in this video, which BTW was filmed in the real apartment,  http://youtu.be/9e7ug0BfNy4?t=1m18s the door is shown already fairly open and not needing further opening, when the child wakes up and walks out of the bedroom into the lounge.

......with the infamous 'Cuddle Rabbit' (or was it a Teddy?, it didn't look like a cat !), which Eddie didn't alert to.

You think Maddie would have left her precious 'Cuddle Rabbit' on her own bed, if she left the room to sleep in mum & dad's ?

[misty]

Good question. Looks like maybe an HVAC vent on wall inside child bedroom - near floor to right of window?

Behind the wicker chair, a large vent? Is that what backs on to those 3 vents outside, to the right of the front door?
I was just wondering why Kate never mentioned a change in temperature in the room, with the wind blowing in.
We know it was rather chilly outside - both she & Gerry had worn fleeces to go to dinner & crecheman & the man the Smiths allegedly saw were both warmly dressed. It suggests either the window hadn't been open for very long or the room was not heated.

[pegasus]

......with the infamous 'Cuddle Rabbit' (or was it a Teddy?, it didn't look like a cat !), which Eddie didn't alert to.

You think Maddie would have left her precious 'Cuddle Rabbit' on her own bed, if she left the room to sleep in mum & dad's ?

The toy being left on the bed is an important clue which means the child got out of bed and walked into the lounge not slowly and relaxedly, but fast and hurried.

[jassi]

I think you missed the important little words 'could have' out of that statement

[pegasus]

Behind the wicker chair, a large vent? Is that what backs on to those 3 vents outside, to the right of the front door?
I was just wondering why Kate never mentioned a change in temperature in the room, with the wind blowing in.
We know it was rather chilly outside - both she & Gerry had worn fleeces to go to dinner & crecheman & the man the Smiths allegedly saw were both warmly dressed. It suggests either the window hadn't been open for very long or the room was not heated.

I am not sure if there is a vent in the child bedroom I just remember seeing one in a photo low down right of window but can't find it now.
Check out Vol 9 p2332 for a plan, that shows it as a stack I think, not part of room or wardrobe.
Also possibly another stack see photos of lounge south west corner? Or is that just a structural column?
Makes sense to have one at each end of apartment.
If there are air or HVAC vents, they would be the exit for the air which blew in the open window.

[Miss Taken Identity]

'I don't attach much significance to the position of the door'

Kate & Gerry do.

Oh but indeed they Do!
 
1.  They were constantly checking the children ( this was before they admitted it was not a physical check but a door listening check)

2. This was the opening of the abduction story. whooshing and noticing curtains and shutters being open
(which she claimed were closed before they went out).  This is the very MOMENT Kate knew,  JUST KNEW Maddie had been taken!

We have to think about why Kate noticed the difference in the door- she knew that others had checked after they went out. SO that was a no brainer anyway.

She was VERY OBSERVANT IN NOTICING THE DOOR NOT BEING CLOSED-but upon her check she didn't notice Maddie missing OR the draught from the window and shutters being 'open' also. It was only when she tried to CLOSE the door the whooshing happened.

And what about that... Gerry getting a 'feeling' someone was in the apartment...but didn't bother to check... went back out and left his children alone.. a quick check would not have taken more than a few minutes  what was his hurry?

If an abduction  theory is to be believed then the abductor got access via the unlocked door which they always used- but they couldn't say that- think of their reputation! Maybe this is what happened-or Maddie did wander outside via the unlocked door.

I just do  not buy into thee whooshing and jemmied shutter story- that was made up- because there is o logical explanation in my opinion.

[pegasus]

The only way the child would leave the toy on the bed is if awoken for example by a loud noise and scary sight at the other end of the room and rushing out of the bedroom into the lounge very fast.

[Wonderfulspam]

Oh but indeed they Do!
 
1.  They were constantly checking the children ( this was before they admitted it was not a physical check but a door listening check)

2. This was the opening of the abduction story. whooshing and noticing curtains and shutters being open
(which she claimed were closed before they went out).  This is the very MOMENT Kate knew,  JUST KNEW Maddie had been taken!

We have to think about why Kate noticed the difference in the door- she knew that others had checked after they went out. SO that was a no brainer anyway.

She was VERY OBSERVANT IN NOTICING THE DOOR NOT BEING CLOSED-but upon her check she didn't notice Maddie missing OR the draught from the window and shutters being 'open' also. It was only when she tried to CLOSE the door the whooshing happened.

And what about that... Gerry getting a 'feeling' someone was in the apartment...but didn't bother to check... went back out and left his children alone.. a quick check would not have taken more than a few minutes  what was his hurry?

If an abduction  theory is to be believed then the abductor got access via the unlocked door which they always used- but they couldn't say that- think of their reputation! Maybe this is what happened-or Maddie did wander outside via the unlocked door.

I just do  not buy into thee whooshing and jemmied shutter story- that was made up- because there is o logical explanation in my opinion.

If an abduction  theory is to be believed then the abductor got access via the unlocked door...


But thanks to Kate, it's debunked, because the sliding patio door as a point of entry/exit means the abductor had to open the gate, child gate, door & curtains, closing them all behind him as he entered/exited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WLvnfcl-Zkg#t=1370


'I'd just like to reiterate that this isn't a four-year-old girl, errm... walking off somewhere during the day or in the evening, you know, she was tucked up in bed, errm... and there's no way she... she could have got out on her own.'

> 2.50  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rw4S5o2KPY&feature=player_embedded

[Miss Taken Identity]

The only way the child would leave the toy on the bed is if awoken for example by a loud noise and scary sight at the other end of the room and rushing out of the bedroom into the lounge very fast.

Would she not rush out of the room screaming then? would she not bang into things? fall over..oh no sorry, That couldn't happen. no accident theories here.

[Alice Purjorick]

[quote deleted]

The issue that is always dodged is the basic one of "for there to have been an abduction the abductor and the child must cross paths".
Now tell us how that happened. No ifs buts and could be s; how precisely did their paths cross?.