The timings of Jeremy's calls to Julie and to the police.

[Holly Goodhead]

Adam, Caroline and John

Re your posts above.  Bews made the decision not to knock on the door or even go close to the building. Obviously Bews et al and JB were not as brave as you guys know you would have been in such a situation.  You must be ex Marines or maybe SAS to present as such brave and noble men and women    Quite unassuming too.  Kudos to you all 

Bews @ 3.28 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI

"I already had it in the back of my mind I was going to call out the firearms unit cause I wasn't going to knock on the front door and risk it being answered by a mad women with a gun. 

I also didn't want to go close to the building because if you're seen  then obviously you can become a target yourself".

[Holly Goodhead]

Absolutely, me too!   By not doing any of the obvious things Jerry drew attention to himself and Stan Jones just wasn't having it.  That's why he shadowed him to Goldhanger and was taking it all in.

Based on AE's WS that's not strictly true John.  DS Jones had his doubts days later:

"If you accused him and later found out you were wrong.  Imagine how you would feel?"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3540

[Holly Goodhead]

Where did I mention a wetsuit or a bicycle?  &%+((£

It still stands that if you get a call at 3am (ish), someone is pretty desperate if they are asking for help and if it made no difference which station he called, it makes even MORE sense for him to have called 999. He possibly thought he needed to explain the delay between HIM calling his phone from WHF and making his way back home. At such a point he didn't know that the call couldn't be checked. There is no excuse for him NOT to have called 999 - it's just common sense.

We will have to agree to disagree. 

Is that you in the shorts?  Nice beaches in your neck of the woods 

[adam]

Adam, Caroline and John

Re your posts above.  Bews made the decision not to knock on the door or even go close to the building. Obviously Bews et al and JB were not as brave as you guys know you would have been in such a situation.  You must be ex Marines or maybe SAS to present as such brave and noble men and women    Quite unassuming too.  Kudos to you all 

Bews @ 3.28 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI

"I already had it in the back of my mind I was going to call out the firearms unit cause I wasn't going to knock on the front door and risk it being answered by a mad women with a gun. 

I also didn't want to go close to the building because if you're seen  then obviously you can become a target yourself".

Obviously Jeremy's supporters will fire fight and justify any unusual behaviour.

At the time Neville had (only) asked Jeremy to 'come quickly'. Not walk around the outside and then sit in a car for several hours.

Thought the police would have to physically restrain him from banging on the door etc. Or he could have begged the police to get in through the loose window.

[Holly Goodhead]

Obviously Jeremy's supporters will fire fight and justify any unusual behaviour.

At the time Neville had (only) asked Jeremy to 'come quickly'. Not walk around the outside and then sit in a car for several hours.

Thought the police would have to physically restrain him from banging on the door etc. Or he could have begged the police to get in through the loose window.

When the police get involved Adam they assume all responsibility and full control.  It becomes a police operational matter. 

Bews @ 3.48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI

"So what I asked JB if he'd mind doing is come with me and Steve Myall one of the PC's on a tour of the perimeter in the farm yard to have a look and see what we could get from the house".

[Holly Goodhead]

Obviously Jeremy's supporters will fire fight and justify any unusual behaviour.

At the time Neville had (only) asked Jeremy to 'come quickly'. Not walk around the outside and then sit in a car for several hours.

Thought the police would have to physically restrain him from banging on the door etc. Or he could have begged the police to get in through the loose window.

Based on JB's initial WS dated 7th Aug '85 he claims NB stated the following in the tel call:

"Sheila's gone crazy she has  got a gun" (Nothing more nothing less)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5631.0;attach=4566

Perhaps when you say "come quickly" you had something else in mind?  &%+((£  If so are you able to provide a source?

[adam]

Based on JB's initial WS dated 7th Aug '85 he claims NB stated the following in the tel call:

"Sheila's gone crazy she has  got a gun" (Nothing more nothing less)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5631.0;attach=4566

Perhaps when you say "come quickly" you had something else in mind?  &%+((£  If so are you able to provide a source?

Seems strange that Neville didn't say anything else.

Perhaps 'Jeremy, it's dad, please come over quickly, Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun'.

Just saying seven words to a half asleep Jeremy - 'Sheila's gone crazy, she's got the gun' is very abrupt. Sheila had not gone crazy anyway, otherwise Neville would have time to phone anyone.

Wilkes's book says Jeremy told PC West that Neville had said 'please come over'.

[Caroline]

We will have to agree to disagree. 

Is that you in the shorts?  Nice beaches in your neck of the woods 

We certainly will 

Ha, ha! Nice try, I'm only 5' 1" and 151lb - 

[Caroline]

Adam, Caroline and John

Re your posts above.  Bews made the decision not to knock on the door or even go close to the building. Obviously Bews et al and JB were not as brave as you guys know you would have been in such a situation.  You must be ex Marines or maybe SAS to present as such brave and noble men and women    Quite unassuming too.  Kudos to you all 

Bews @ 3.28 in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI

"I already had it in the back of my mind I was going to call out the firearms unit cause I wasn't going to knock on the front door and risk it being answered by a mad women with a gun. 

I also didn't want to go close to the building because if you're seen  then obviously you can become a target yourself".

I would try to enter the house of a complete stranger - only my own family It wasn't Bews's family, he didn't know what he was dealing with. However, given that you think Jeremy didn't think it warranted a 999 call, he wouldn't have been too concerned, so why didn't he attempt to enter or even suggest that he should?

[Caroline]

Based on AE's WS that's not strictly true John.  DS Jones had his doubts days later:

"If you accused him and later found out you were wrong.  Imagine how you would feel?"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3540

But according to Jonse's own WS, he did have suspicions from day 1.

[Holly Goodhead]

Seems strange that Neville didn't say anything else.

Perhaps 'Jeremy, it's dad, please come over quickly, Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun'.

Just saying seven words to a half asleep Jeremy - 'Sheila's gone crazy, she's got the gun' is very abrupt. Sheila had not gone crazy anyway, otherwise Neville would have time to phone anyone.

Wilkes's book says Jeremy told PC West that Neville had said 'please come over'.

Perhaps you've just hit the nail on the head!  If we assume SC was going crazy and she had the gun what options would NB have:

- Ignore SC and leave her to her own devices

- Attempt to recover the gun from her

- Phone the police

- Phone a.n other

- Phone JB

Sadly I am old enough (just) to remember the old dial phones.  If we assume NB made the said call on the kitchen cream dial phone just calling 999 is likely to have taken longer than a four digit number (local to local 4 numbers in '85) to JB.  If he called 999 he would need to give:

- his full name
- full postal address
- brief outline of the situation

If he called JB

- "Sheilas gone crazy shes got the gun"

Adam I think you have just solved the riddle of the phone call 

[Holly Goodhead]

We certainly will 

Ha, ha! Nice try, I'm only 5' 1" and 151lb - 

What's with the    I thought when we discussed on Blue you said bi-curiosity hadn't crossed your mind?   &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

I would try to enter the house of a complete stranger - only my own family It wasn't Bews's family, he didn't know what he was dealing with. However, given that you think Jeremy didn't think it warranted a 999 call, he wouldn't have been too concerned, so why didn't he attempt to enter or even suggest that he should?

Hmm why would you try to enter the house of a complete stranger?   &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

But according to Jonse's own WS, he did have suspicions from day 1.

Yes that's true he was conflicted/unsure.  I have posted about this previously. Apparently in the early days DS Jones was according to Dr V, the pathologist, the only dissenter.  However the important point is that as far as Dr V was concerned there was nothing impressive in what DS Jones said nor anything of evidential value:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3827.msg144292#msg144292

You have recently posted on Blue about police practices in the 80's ie going on hunches and fabricating evidence:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6155.msg272871.html#msg272871

 

[Caroline]

What's with the    I thought when we discussed on Blue you said bi-curiosity hadn't crossed your mind?   &%+((£

Ha, ha!! Wow! That's a bit of a leap Holly - it wasn't an invitation! I think you only change the subject to play down the significance of what's been said - so back to he topic. It's totally unrealistic not to have expected him to have called 999. When I thought Bamber might be innocent, I also played down the significance of the calls but was never happy doing so, because there is no excuse unless he knew the local number off by heart - which he didn't.