Author Topic: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?  (Read 53227 times)

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Offline John

Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« on: March 03, 2015, 05:17:04 PM »
The disappearance of Aisling Symes, a two-year-old girl of Irish and New Zealand descent, occurred on 5 October 2009 in New Zealand. Like Madeleine McCann two years earlier, it was initially thought the girl had been abducted but on 12 October 2009 it was confirmed that a body had been located in a storm water drain on a property adjoining the one from where she went missing.  The body was confirmed to be Aisling's.  Did Madeleine McCann actually wander off and suffer the same fate as Aisling Symes?

Seems some of those very close to the family felt she could very well have wandered off!

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5702.msg224878#msg224878




Aisling Symes was just two years old when she disappeared while Madeleine McCann was almost four.

Aisling's disappearance attracted headlines in New Zealand and Ireland, particularly as child abduction was an unusual occurrence in New Zealand. One New Zealand police inspector even went as far as to claim on Morning Ireland that only five children had disappeared in his country in the previous fifty years. The New Zealand Herald said nine children had disappeared without trace in the country in sixty years, at least two cases of which involved more than one child at a time.  Forty members of the New Zealand police were quickly put on the case. This had risen to sixty by the end of the first week and was set to rise again before her body was located.

Sophie Tedmanson of The Times newspaper compared Aisling's case to that of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a famous missing person's case in the United Kingdom. Paul Chapman did the same in The Daily Telegraph. Her parents have said their "thoughts and prayers" are with the Symes family.

A number of suspects and several cases of mistaken identity resulted from the case.  However, on Monday 13 October 2009, police confirmed in a press conference that a body found the previous night in a drainpipe in Henderson was that of two-year-old missing toddler Aisling Symes. Police inspector Gary Davey, head of the Aisling inquiry, says the body was removed from the scene at 1am of 13 October. Mr Davey says the body of Aisling probably lay in a drain within metres of scores of police and searchers for days after she disappeared. The drain, that was two metres below the ground, was thoroughly searched by officers with special search techniques used to check the drain. Mr Davey says cameras were used to reach 9–10 metres into the drain, but the search proved fruitless. A decision was then made to dig up part of the drain, a digger was called in and it took five hours until Aisling's body was finally found inside. When police were first called to the Symes house, a police officer searched the pipe three times, Mr Davey said. The manhole cover was ajar about 10 cm and the first police officer looked down the pipe and there was no sign of a body. "He called out and did not hear anything other than running water," Mr Davey said. The officer then searched towards the stream and 15 minutes later returned to the manhole, climbed about two metres down the larger access pipe after moving the manhole cover back. He shone his torch down the smaller 375mm drain at the bottom and could see nothing. He also called her name but there was no response. "He believed he could see five metres up into the drain and five metres down the drain." The drain was searched for a third time later in the night by search and rescue searchers, Mr Davey said.



During the search Aisling's father Alan Symes also climbed down the pipe and looked for his daughter, said Mr Davey. Mr Davey says it is too early to tell how Aisling got into the drain, but police believe no foul play was involved. "I believe it is more likely or not that she was there from the start and I believe it is misadventure," he says. He says police are still treating the Henderson property as a crime scene, and that they are keeping an "open mind" about the situation.

Waitakere Police later said the results of a post mortem on Aisling Symes were consistent with drowning. Inspector Gary Davey, Waitakere Area Police Commander, said he was unable to comment on the specific details of the autopsy but there was no evidence of injury.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Aisling_Symes

231
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 01:12:07 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2015, 05:20:33 PM »
The disappearance of Aisling Symes, a two-year-old girl of Irish and New Zealand descent, occurred on 5 October 2009 in New Zealand. Like Madeleine McCann, it was initially thought the girl had been abducted but on 12 October 2009 it was confirmed that a body had been located in a storm water drain on a property adjoining the one from where she went missing.  The body was confirmed to be Aisling's.

Aisling's disappearance attracted headlines in New Zealand and Ireland, particularly as child abduction was an unusual occurrence in New Zealand. One New Zealand police inspector even went as far as to claim on Morning Ireland that only five children had disappeared in his country in the previous fifty years. The New Zealand Herald said nine children had disappeared without trace in the country in sixty years, at least two cases of which involved more than one child at a time.  Forty members of the New Zealand police were quickly put on the case. This had risen to sixty by the end of the first week and was set to rise again before her body was located.

Sophie Tedmanson of The Times newspaper compared Aisling's case to that of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a famous missing person's case in the United Kingdom. Paul Chapman did the same in The Daily Telegraph. Her parents have said their "thoughts and prayers" are with the Symes family.

neither SY or the PJ seem to have considered this to be an option

Offline John

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2015, 05:30:32 PM »
neither SY or the PJ seem to have considered this to be an option

Well, considering they searched the storm water drains after the disappearance, they must have done.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2015, 05:34:30 PM »
Well, considering they searched the storm water drains after the disappearance, they must have done.

archiving report...

As a remote hypothesis, the possibility of the minor leaving the apartment by her own means was explored – that would be highly unlikely physically – and after, because of an accident or by a third person intervention, she would have disappeared.

Offline John

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 05:58:03 PM »
archiving report...

As a remote hypothesis, the possibility of the minor leaving the apartment by her own means was explored – that would be highly unlikely physically – and after, because of an accident or by a third person intervention, she would have disappeared.

I'm afraid several senior detectives don't agree with you Dave and I tend to agree with them.   Maybe the next time SY come back to Luz they will undertake a proper examination of all the underground drains between Ocean Club Block 5 and the beach.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 06:19:45 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 06:03:55 PM »
I'm afraid several senior detectives don't agree with you Dave and I tend to agree with them.   Maybe the next time SY come back to Luz they will undertake a proper examination of all the underground drains between Ocean Club Block 5 and the beach.
That wasn't Davel's opinion, that was from the PT AG's Final report.  Which senior detectives believe Madeleine may be in a drain somewhere as a result of an accident?

Offline John

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 06:10:15 PM »
That wasn't Davel's opinion, that was from the PT AG's Final report.  Which senior detectives believe Madeleine may be in a drain somewhere as a result of an accident?

I'm sure you have seen the TV presentation where several senior retired detectives considered this very scenario a distinct possibility.  Add to that Mark Williams-Thomas and a few others and it becomes clear that they are all thinking the same thing.

Scotland Yard to search sewer system in Praia da Luz.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10874549/Madeleine-McCann-latest-detectives-to-search-sewer-system-in-Praia-da-Luz.html
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 06:15:22 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 06:15:29 PM »
I'm sure you have seen the TV presentation where several senior retired detectives considered this very scenario a distinct possibility.  Add to that Mark Williams-Thomas and a few others and it becomes clear that they are all thinking the same thing.

I agree it sounds a reasonable idea...I wonder why the archiving report seems to have dismissed it and SY haven't mentioned it.....depends on how difficult it would be for a 3 yr old to open the doors

Offline John

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 06:18:44 PM »
I agree it sounds a reasonable idea...I wonder why the archiving report seems to have dismissed it and SY haven't mentioned it.....depends on how difficult it would be for a 3 yr old to open the doors

Sorry Dave, I misread your earlier posting.  If that is what is contained in the Archive Report I fear they have been sorely mislead.

Thanks for pointing that out Alfred.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 09:49:31 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 06:32:37 PM »
I agree it sounds a reasonable idea...I wonder why the archiving report seems to have dismissed it and SY haven't mentioned it.....depends on how difficult it would be for a 3 yr old to open the doors

....& the window & shutter.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 06:34:35 PM »
I'm sure you have seen the TV presentation where several senior retired detectives considered this very scenario a distinct possibility.  Add to that Mark Williams-Thomas and a few others and it becomes clear that they are all thinking the same thing.

Scotland Yard to search sewer system in Praia da Luz.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10874549/Madeleine-McCann-latest-detectives-to-search-sewer-system-in-Praia-da-Luz.html
And the Met recently made a number of people arguidos because they believed Madeleine fell down a drain...? &%+((£

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 06:35:29 PM »
Sorry Dave, I misread your earlier posting.  If that is what is contained in the Archive Report I fear they have been sorely mislead.

Thanks for pointing that out Alfred.
Sorely mislead by whom?  The PJ, upon whose investigation the archiving report is based?

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 06:38:56 PM »
No way out!


Fox News 1st July 2007.

Gerry McCann: I'd just like to reiterate that this isn't a four-year-old girl, errm... walking off somewhere during the day or in the evening, you know, she was tucked up in bed, errm... and there's no way she... she could have got out on her own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6Rw4S5o2KPY#t=162



McCann's Irish RTE Late Late Show Interview May 13 2011

Interviewer:

Why did you, Kate, why did you think immediately that she was abducted & hadn’t wandered out of the apartment or  gone somewhere, why was that such a gut reaction for you, do you think?


Kate:

Well, there’s absolutely no way a 3 year old could open those shutters & the window.

Interviewer:

Simple as that.


Kate:

Simple as that, y’know & people, y’know obviously, people saying are you sure she didn’t wander off?,
I’m saying, well, the shutter was up & the window was open, I’m not lying about that,
& even if they want to say theoretically, oh, she wandered out the back of the apartment,
then you’re basically saying a 3 year old has opened the long curtains, closed them behind her, opened the patio doors, closed them behind her, *opened the gate at the top of the stairs, closed that behind her......

Gerry:

*With the child lock.

Kate: .... & done the same at the bottom,y’know it’s just not,  it’s not possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLvnfcl-Zkg#t=1370


David Payne Rogatory:

'as we were walking up towards the flat she said err you know they've taken her and it was, you know, and I know there's been a controversy about what was actually said but you know that is very accurately what had been said. Like I say, as I say you know you could just never forget her face and those words, and err as we were, you know, approaching their apartment I was just saying to Kate,
I said well look how do you know that is the case, and err you know again I, I can't remember the exact words then, but I was very interested in finding what the state of the apartment was like when she'd got there to see who'd left err doors open or etcetera. And from my point of view you know the things that were, I think it was really pertinent to me was that there was two, there was two gates on the back entrance from that apartment. There's the gate which is immediately bring, you know brings you on to the err the road and then there was another child gate, that was at the top and I, you know, and given the fact that the front door was shut I was just saying well what was the state of those two gates, were those gates open when you went up or were they shut, and she was adamant that those two gates were shut. Well you know there was two possibilities, she'd either been taken or she'd wandered off, no child is gonna wander off and shut two gates behind them so at that moment I knew, although I didn't want to believe it, but I knew that she'd been abducted.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 07:00:56 PM by Wonderfulspam »
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 10:01:56 AM »
The most remarkable backtrack ever for me was when Gerry McCann changed his statement as to how he gained access to the apartment on the night Maddie disappeared.  Initially he told the PJ investigators that he walked the long way round and entered via the car park and the front door of the appartment.  This later changed to he used the steps up from the street to the back patio and entered via the patio doors.

I can understand a minor lapse of memory but this was a substantial failure to remember important details.  When you look at this in the context of Maddie's unexplained disappearance from the apartment then several scenarios become very apparent.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Did Madeleine McCann meet the same fate as Aisling Symes?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 10:35:04 AM »
It depends on how you interpret the Aisling Symes case.

I can explain how a near 4 year old got out of apartment 5A.

I cannot explain how a 2 year old gets down past a manhole cover that is 10cm ajar (2.5 inches) and it is natural causes.
What's up, old man?