Author Topic: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.  (Read 181171 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #465 on: July 03, 2019, 09:22:58 PM »
Martin Grime has been through the wringer today. Apparently he's a money-grabbing, dog ability embellishing, whinging, charlatan scheister. And his dogs are ****

Im glad you posted that ...not me...thanks for the support

Offline G-Unit

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #466 on: July 03, 2019, 09:26:27 PM »
Its not an assumption...Grime gave evidence as  a canine expert...how is he not regarded as an expert witness...you claimed I was wrong...now provide a cite..
I think youve dug yourself a big hole...a very big hole

Do you not think it's unreasonable to demand cites from someone else when you can't provide any to support what you admit are just your assumptions?

I'll tell you what happened, but I won't provide my sources. Why should I when you can state yout opinions as facts?

When D'Andre Lane claimed his daughter had been abducted the FBI got involved in the case because kidnapping is a federal offense. Martin Grime was working under contract for the FBI at the time as part of Stockham's Forensic Canine Programme. That's how he came to be used with his dog Morse. Morse's alerts became part of the body of circumstantial evidence against Lane. That's why Grime was called to give evidence; as Morse's handler, as the Daily Mail reported [strangely they didn't namr the handler];

The handler of a cadaver-sniffing dog named Morse testified at Lane's trial that the dog detected the smell of decomposition in his car and in Bianca's bedroom.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242514/Detroit-dad-gets-life-prison-DAndre-Lane-beat-daughter-Bianca-Jones-2-death-wetting-herself.html

 
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Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #467 on: July 03, 2019, 09:28:32 PM »
Martin Grime has been through the wringer today. Apparently he's a money-grabbing, dog ability embellishing, whinging, charlatan scheister. And his dogs are ****

One of my favorite scenes from a movie is Pythons holy grail- reminds me of the dogs debate...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline G-Unit

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #468 on: July 03, 2019, 09:31:35 PM »
your problem is youve made  a rash claim that I was wrong that you cannot substantiate..its quite obvious youve made a false claim and cant provide a cite

You have claimed Grime gave evidence as a paid expert witness and have no cite to support yout claim. I think people who live in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #469 on: July 03, 2019, 09:35:24 PM »
Do you not think it's unreasonable to demand cites from someone else when you can't provide any to support what you admit are just your assumptions?

I'll tell you what happened, but I won't provide my sources. Why should I when you can state yout opinions as facts?

When D'Andre Lane claimed his daughter had been abducted the FBI got involved in the case because kidnapping is a federal offense. Martin Grime was working under contract for the FBI at the time as part of Stockham's Forensic Canine Programme. That's how he came to be used with his dog Morse. Morse's alerts became part of the body of circumstantial evidence against Lane. That's why Grime was called to give evidence; as Morse's handler, as the Daily Mail reported [strangely they didn't namr the handler];

The handler of a cadaver-sniffing dog named Morse testified at Lane's trial that the dog detected the smell of decomposition in his car and in Bianca's bedroom.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242514/Detroit-dad-gets-life-prison-DAndre-Lane-beat-daughter-Bianca-Jones-2-death-wetting-herself.html

Grime was under contract to provide services to the FBI... According to Grime.. One if these services was as an expert witness.. If Grime was under contract he was paid..
You have claimed Grime was just a witness... He obviously  wasn't if he was under contract to supply expert witness services..

So Grime was paid and he was an expert witness... So your claim I was wrong is false.
My information is from his LinkedIn page




Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #470 on: July 03, 2019, 09:36:35 PM »
You have claimed Grime gave evidence as a paid expert witness and have no cite to support yout claim. I think people who live in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones.

My claim was correct.. Your claim that I wasn't correct is false

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #471 on: July 03, 2019, 09:46:56 PM »
Grime was under contract to provide services to the FBI... According to Grime.. One if these services was as an expert witness.. If Grime was under contract he was paid..
You have claimed Grime was just a witness... He obviously  wasn't if he was under contract to supply expert witness services..

So Grime was paid and he was an expert witness... So your claim I was wrong is false.
My information is from his LinkedIn page

Cuing and false positives would do his business and reputation no good.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #472 on: July 03, 2019, 09:48:53 PM »

I was thinking more the EVRD dog....has keela ever alerted and no dna found...its possible

Well we know DNA was found in this case!

Here's some words from Martin Grime on Keela, her ability and training:

"Vol IX p. 2483

CSI HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOG

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate
exclusively human blood. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen
motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for human
blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have
been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several
washing machine cycles. In training she has accurately located samples of
blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ.
Any 'wetting' once dried will not affect the dog's abilities. Blood that is
subjected to dilution by precipitation or other substantial water source prior to
drying will soak into the ground or other absorbent material. This may dilute
the scent to an unacceptable level for accurate location.

She is trained specifically using human blood obtained through the
haematology department at Sheffield Northern General Hospital. The blood
undergoes strict screening for disease and contamination prior to use. The
samples are from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds and are from both male
and female sources.

Keela's training and licensing is based around the level of 1 positive screening
sample introduced into 200 control articles or 1 positive sample introduced
during 6 hours searching in relation to crime scenes or vehicles."

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #473 on: July 03, 2019, 09:52:00 PM »
Well we know DNA was found in this case!

Here's some words from Martin Grime on Keela, her ability and training:

"Vol IX p. 2483

CSI HUMAN BLOOD DETECTING DOG

'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate
exclusively human blood. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen
motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for human
blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have
been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several
washing machine cycles. In training she has accurately located samples of
blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ.
Any 'wetting' once dried will not affect the dog's abilities. Blood that is
subjected to dilution by precipitation or other substantial water source prior to
drying will soak into the ground or other absorbent material. This may dilute
the scent to an unacceptable level for accurate location.

She is trained specifically using human blood obtained through the
haematology department at Sheffield Northern General Hospital. The blood
undergoes strict screening for disease and contamination prior to use. The
samples are from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds and are from both male
and female sources.

Keela's training and licensing is based around the level of 1 positive screening
sample introduced into 200 control articles or 1 positive sample introduced
during 6 hours searching in relation to crime scenes or vehicles."

DNA found but not confirmed as blood

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #474 on: July 03, 2019, 09:54:05 PM »
Cuing and false positives would do his business and reputation no good.

I disagree... A false positive is virtually impossible to prove

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #475 on: July 03, 2019, 09:54:18 PM »
That evidence is not proof to support the alerts

Here's some examples of Eddie's operational casework:

Northern Ireland, UK
A missing person, last seen returning from church, on foot, in N. Ireland. The
search of suspects 'burnt out vehicle' by forensic scientists did not reveal any
evidence. A search by the E.V.R.D. identified a position in the rear passenger
foot well where the dog alerted to the presence of human material. A sample
was taken and when analysed revealed the victims' DNA. The enquiry then
concentrated its efforts on the suspect and the E.V.R.D. located the body of
the woman in a river bank deposition site. Further searches identified a
location where the E.V.R.D. alerted in the front bedroom of the offenders
empty next door dwelling house. When interviewed the suspect admitted that
the body had lain in the room for 1 hour prior to disposal. Forensic teams
were unable to extract any forensic evidence despite being shown the exact
position.

Wiltshire, UK
A female was abducted by her ex-boyfriend. Intelligence suggested that her
ex-boy friend had taken her to his house. A search by the EVRD of the house
resulted in small blood stains being alert indicated and forensically confirmed
as her blood. The suspect, a builder, was in possession of a van. This was
searched and the EVRD dog alerted to a 'wacker plate', spirtit level, and
shovel. A site was identified where the suspect had been working. The EVRD
then located the body deposition site in an area of a garbage base that had
been prepared by the suspect. He had returned with the dead girl, dug a
grave in the centre, placed the body in the hole, replaced the spoil and then
used the shovel, wacker plate and spirit level to return the ground to its
original state.

Devon, UK
A female was abducted and her whereabouts were unknown. The suspect
was a bus driver. An initial search by the E.V.R.D. alerted at a location near
to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances. A forensic search at
the alert location revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass.
The offender confessed to the murder and confirmed her body had been
initially temporarily placed at the dog's alert location.

Cornwall, UK
A woman was reported missing by her partner. A search of the suspects
house by the EVRD was conducted who indicated on the living room carpet.
No forensic evidence was recovered. Subsequently a diary written by the
suspect was alert indicated by the dog. The diary had written extracts that the
offender had laid the victim on the carpet whilst dead, the diary had in fact
been written by the suspect having handled the body. This was confirmed by
the offender in interview.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #476 on: July 03, 2019, 09:54:40 PM »
Grime was under contract to provide services to the FBI... According to Grime.. One if these services was as an expert witness.. If Grime was under contract he was paid..
You have claimed Grime was just a witness... He obviously  wasn't if he was under contract to supply expert witness services..

So Grime was paid and he was an expert witness... So your claim I was wrong is false.
My information is from his LinkedIn page

Of course Grime was paid because he was working under contract for the FBI. You claimed he was paid as an expert witness by the courts, did you not? Specially chosen by the prosecutors, no less?

Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #477 on: July 03, 2019, 09:57:54 PM »
Here's some examples of Eddie's operational casework:

Northern Ireland, UK
A missing person, last seen returning from church, on foot, in N. Ireland. The
search of suspects 'burnt out vehicle' by forensic scientists did not reveal any
evidence. A search by the E.V.R.D. identified a position in the rear passenger
foot well where the dog alerted to the presence of human material. A sample
was taken and when analysed revealed the victims' DNA. The enquiry then
concentrated its efforts on the suspect and the E.V.R.D. located the body of
the woman in a river bank deposition site. Further searches identified a
location where the E.V.R.D. alerted in the front bedroom of the offenders
empty next door dwelling house. When interviewed the suspect admitted that
the body had lain in the room for 1 hour prior to disposal. Forensic teams
were unable to extract any forensic evidence despite being shown the exact
position.

Wiltshire, UK
A female was abducted by her ex-boyfriend. Intelligence suggested that her
ex-boy friend had taken her to his house. A search by the EVRD of the house
resulted in small blood stains being alert indicated and forensically confirmed
as her blood. The suspect, a builder, was in possession of a van. This was
searched and the EVRD dog alerted to a 'wacker plate', spirtit level, and
shovel. A site was identified where the suspect had been working. The EVRD
then located the body deposition site in an area of a garbage base that had
been prepared by the suspect. He had returned with the dead girl, dug a
grave in the centre, placed the body in the hole, replaced the spoil and then
used the shovel, wacker plate and spirit level to return the ground to its
original state.

Devon, UK
A female was abducted and her whereabouts were unknown. The suspect
was a bus driver. An initial search by the E.V.R.D. alerted at a location near
to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances. A forensic search at
the alert location revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass.
The offender confessed to the murder and confirmed her body had been
initially temporarily placed at the dog's alert location.

Cornwall, UK
A woman was reported missing by her partner. A search of the suspects
house by the EVRD was conducted who indicated on the living room carpet.
No forensic evidence was recovered. Subsequently a diary written by the
suspect was alert indicated by the dog. The diary had written extracts that the
offender had laid the victim on the carpet whilst dead, the diary had in fact
been written by the suspect having handled the body. This was confirmed by
the offender in interview.

Thats anectdotal not scientific evidence... And IMO not very impressive for 5 years, work

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #478 on: July 03, 2019, 10:00:32 PM »
I disagree... A false positive is virtually impossible to prove

But if Keela barks randomly and the forensic team rarely find blood for DNA analysis after these random barks then Grime (and dogs) would not be so highly regarded by the FBI.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 10:06:51 PM by Billy Whizz Fan Club »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Eddie and Keela and what the alerts meant if anything.
« Reply #479 on: July 03, 2019, 10:01:49 PM »
But if Keela barks randomly and the forensic team rarely find blood for DNA analysis after these random barks ana then Grime (and dogs) would not be so highly regarded by the FBI.

I'm not talking about Keela... It's the cadaver dog that's important....