New video on the case:

[Myster]

I don't really know much about the Bain case but like JB's case it appears there was some dysfunction in the family which was played down along with Robin's (DB's father) depression?  Robin Bain's colleagues said he was barely able to function due to depression.  Robin had bizarre living arrangements whereby during the week he would sleep in the school house or his campervan then on the w.e he would return to the family home and sleep in a caravan as he was estranged from his wife Margaret.  Laniet (DB's sister) told a teacher she had been raped and a friend, Dean Cottle, she was in an incestuous relationship with her father.  It is said Laniet was about to spill the beans. The family home was by all accounts messy and unkempt. 

David Bain apparently had the potential to become an opera singer. 

What would be the motivation for DB to murder his family.?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10854521

Uncanny similarities with the Bamber case - five family members shot through the head using David Bain's .22 rifle equipped with silencer, magazine(s) and hollow-point bullets; father killed alone downstairs (although the bloody struggle was with his 14 year-old brother); delayed emergency phone call; police making a cock-up gathering evidence; relatives gaining the family inheritance instead of David Bain.  Even British firearm's expert Philip Boyce (from "The New Evidence") made an appearance at the retrial in New Zealand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr13rG7YmNY

Unlike Jeremy Bamber, David Bain's blood-stained gloves were found hidden underneath his brother's bed.

Police crime scene video of the Bain family house... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRwUqReEheE

As to a motive or motives... http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/david-had-a-number-of-possible-motives

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_david_bain_case.html

[Holly Goodhead]

Didn't Colin Caffell see them or similar in one of the drawers when he called round at Morshead Mansions to collect Sheila's and the twins' effects? And one of Sheila's close friends mentioned something about an explicit photoshoot in her borrowed back garden, about which Sheila was ashamed.

Yes I believe SC had undertaken a photo shoot later regretted but I'm not sure if these were the photos JB attempted to sell to The Sun.  Surely if SC regretted the photos she would have destroyed them.  Why would she keep them?  I think this whole model thing is a bit of a farce.  Apart from the actual course and an assignment in Tokyo there doesn't appear to be any evidence that SC undertook any other assignments.  I'm not sure what sort of model SC was supposed to be: fashion, glamour?
   

Most people understand that JB needed cash to spend willy-nilly on a foreign drug run/pleasure trips, and champagne parties to buy peoples' love.

It was the holiday season/summer.  He went to Amsterdam for the weekend and a few days in South of France.  Amsterdam is famous for its cannabis coffee shops which are legal.  He purchased some cannabis to bring back to UK for own use.  Millions of people all over the world smoke cannabis.  I understand some 'pink' champagne was consumed at the Caribbean Cottage, Burnham on Crouch, post funeral.  A young guy loses his family in tragic circumstances and post funeral he goes out with a few friends for something to eat/drink?  Drowning his sorrows maybe?  What difference does it make pink champagne or a pint of IPA?  I doubt if the Caribbean Cottage was in a financial position to hold 'fine' wines and champagne that were out of reach of Joe Average.

[/color]There's such a thing as visiting JB's old hunting grounds and asking around.

I did when I had Sunday lunch in The Chequers, Goldhanger and all thought JB innocent.  I posted about it at the time on Blue and have made ref to it here. 

I understand AE decided to dump his bed as there were too many notches on the bedpost    She had a French polisher look over it but apparently it was beyond making good   

The only women I've read about him bedding are Suzette Ford, JM, Anji Greaves (think he might have kept it in the family with her sister Virginia too?) and someone he met at The Chequers on a night out with Charles Marsden but its unclear whether he actually did the biz or not.  Oh and I think JM's friend, Liz Rimmington, claimed he did the biz with her.  Even if he bedded every woman in Essex what does this prove?  He was a 24 yoa guy and effectively single, no real commitment to JM, so as long as it was consensual what's the big deal?  The important thing for me is that no women has ever come forward and said he was violent or abusive.  Perhaps you're ultra conservative and/or jealous? 

Lookout and John said SC was promiscuous:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3860.msg145224#msg145224

There's no evidence she was.  Lookout went further asking where it came from adding it wasn't NB or June.  I can only assume she was inferring it was genetic coming from her birth parents?

I think if adoptees find themselves in the spotlight for the wrong reasons others will be quick to blame genetics/birth parents (bad blood) rather than the environment/adoptive parents.  If you listen to DB's account of June in the vid she can do no wrong in his eyes and yet he fails to acknowledge her severe depression in 1959 caused by her decision to adopt SC resulting in in-patient psychiatric care and electro-convulsive treatment for June and SC being placed in foster care.   

[Holly Goodhead]

Uncanny similarities with the Bamber case - five family members shot through the head using David Bain's .22 rifle equipped with silencer, magazine(s) and hollow-point bullets; father killed alone downstairs (although the bloody struggle was with his 14 year-old brother); delayed emergency phone call; police making a cock-up gathering evidence; relatives gaining the family inheritance instead of David Bain.  Even British firearm's expert Philip Boyce (from "The New Evidence") made an appearance at the retrial in New Zealand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr13rG7YmNY

Unlike Jeremy Bamber, David Bain's blood-stained gloves were found hidden underneath his brother's bed.

Police crime scene video of the Bain family house... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRwUqReEheE

As to a motive or motives... http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/david-had-a-number-of-possible-motives

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/the_david_bain_case.html

Thanks.  I'll delve a bit deeper 

I think the counterspin sites are led by Kent Parker and Vic Purkiss who could be seen as akin to the extreme elements on the McCann sites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q58Blv_fjGo

[Myster]

Thanks.  I'll delve a bit deeper 

I think the counterspin sites are led by Kent Parker and Vic Purkiss who could be seen as akin to the extreme elements on the McCann sites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q58Blv_fjGo

OK then, a more reliable source - The 2007 Court of Appeal document: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0705/S00225.htm

[John]

Listen to this. I've reduced the speed and it sounds like "Julie Mugford" to me...

https://soundcloud.com/user9618130/stan-jones-jeremy-bamber-1

Anyone else think the same?

Yes, Julie Mugford.  The idea that Julie's mom had prior knowledge of the impending events is rather farfetched.

[John]

Lookout and John said SC was promiscuous:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3860.msg145224#msg145224

There's no evidence she was. 

Other than the multiple pregnancies by different fathers but that is a mere detail.

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes, Julie Mugford.  The idea that Julie's mom had prior knowledge of the impending events is rather farfetched.

I don't believe anyone had prior knowledge of the 'impending events' but I can imagine DS Jones making a faux pas. 

I guess we should be thankful for small mercies in that DS Jones wasn't tasked with manning the phones on that fateful night.  Otherwise who knows what "Sheilas gone crazy she's got a gun" might have morphed into!

I hope the JB supporters who put a lot of weight on EP in communication with someone inside WHF and two bodies in the kitchen one male, one female will realise that EP circa 1980's was not a professional, highly trained and well managed police force.  Mistakes abound were an inevitable part of their bungling incompetence.   As can be evidenced by the vid they were barely capable of audible and coherent speech and observing the most basic of details eg mistaking JB's silver Astra for a white Nova.  It seems NB was spot on when he likened the police at Witham to Dad's Army.

[Holly Goodhead]

Other than the multiple pregnancies by different fathers but that is a mere detail.

Two fathers.  One of whom became her husband and father of the twins.  The multiple pregnancies you refer to resulted in miscarriages where CC was the father.  There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that SC was promiscuous.  

CC tells of the multiple miscarriages SC suffered:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=17m40s

[Myster]

I don't believe anyone had prior knowledge of the 'impending events' but I can imagine DS Jones making a faux pas.

I guess we should be thankful for small mercies in that DS Jones wasn't tasked with manning the phones on that fateful night.
Otherwise who knows what "Sheilas gone crazy she's got a gun" might have morphed into!

I hope the JB supporters who put a lot of weight on EP in communication with someone inside WHF and two bodies in the kitchen one male, one female will realise that EP circa 1980's was not a professional, highly trained and well managed police force.  Mistakes abound were an inevitable part of their bungling incompetence.   As can be evidenced by the vid they were barely capable of audible and coherent speech and observing the most basic of details eg mistaking JB's silver Astra for a white Nova.  It seems NB was spot on when he likened the police at Witham to Dad's Army.

Who cares?... both stars, aren't they?   Jeremy doesn't even remember that he didn't get on with his mum......

http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/happy-mothers-day.html

[Holly Goodhead]

Who cares?... both stars, aren't they?   Jeremy doesn't even remember that he didn't get on with his mum......

http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/happy-mothers-day.html

JB appears to have been honest in his police interviews re his relationship with June describing it as "rough and smooth":

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=8leqqstp3l71pddsgptaf9nnj2&action=dlattach;topic=294.0;attach=1182

JM apparently discussed with JB a letter from June where she apologises over her treatment towards him which was to be read in the event of her death:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=285.0;attach=1140

This might relate to the letter that was read out at trial by Basil Cock but I don't recall anything about apologising
over any treatment.  I thought it was just to thank JB and SC for all they had given her.  Do people do this - leave letters to be read upon death?  Perhaps it's something peculiar to adoptive mothers and I have mine to look forward to 

Anyway if you think JB's relationship with June was not what it should be it seems 'normal' by comparison with the SC and June relationship:

Dr F's wit stats

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1199.0;attach=6191

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1199.0;attach=6193

"She said she felt as if she was caught up in a "coven of evil".  These feelings appeared to be involved with her
relationship with her adoptive mother and her standards of good and evil".

"She did see that Mrs Bamber was a threat to her, and did not want to visit the BAMBERS at their farm in Essex.  Sheila felt that Mrs Bamber had been over-protective towards her and found it difficult to express warm feelings towards her".

"In hindsight I believe that Sheila would have relapsed into a state of psychosis, probably having a firmly held belief or delusion involving concepts of good and evil, and certainly paranoid, possibly involving her mother."

"Both June and Sheila suffered dillusional states of religion and Sheila's illness was influenced by her mother although I do not think the illnesses were caused by the same problem."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1201.0;attach=6197

"I also treated Sheila's adopted mother, Mrs June BAMBER at St Andrew's Hospital, Northants.  I can say that June after suffering a long period of childlessness was examined and eventually an ovarian cyst was removed.  She made a decision to adopt and having done this suffered severe depressions.  This was around 1959.  She required ECT as an in-patient and made a full recovery".

Farhad Emani (Freddie) wit stats:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159.0;attach=214

"She also had a deep dislike of her stepmother who apparently kept quoting religion at her.  This would upset Sheila and annoy her".

"She would not discuss all her problems, although whenever she visited her father, she would return even more depressed because of her stepmother.  Apparently the stepmother would preach to her about her boyfriends and how it was wrong that she should make love with them and Sheila should remember GOD.  She gradually deteriorated until about three weeks before her first breakdown, Nicholas fell out of a taxi when she was returning from her parents.  She blamed herself for this because she was not concentrating on what the children were doing only on Mother's religious rantings".

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159.0;attach=216

"Whilst I was there she telephoned Tara, a close friend.  She was apologising to Tara for a Religious book that her step mother had dropped off at Tara's house a couple of days previously".

"She kept talking about the Devil and God, and stated that God was sitting opposite her and unlike what her stepmother said he in fact loved her".

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=159.0;attach=218

"Had it just been her Stepmother who had been killed I could accept it as she disliked her intensely but to think she has killed her father and children is difficult to comprehend".

CC's Letter Intended For NB

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1482.0;attach=7232

"I will not allow her to f..k up the minds of my children in the way I suspect she has your daughters.  I am sorry to be so blunt but that is restrained compared to how I really feel".

Excerpt From Claire Powell's book

Sheila made it clear to her friends that her precarious state of her personal equilibrium stemmed largely from her
peculiar relationship with June.  She was morbidly sensitive to any hint of disapproval from her mother.  It was a theme she reverted to constantly.  'She talked about her mother and her background' said Sonja.  'She told me that she and her mother didn't get on.  Sheila told me many times that she could not talk to her mother at all, that there was no form of communication between them.  She  said her mother was never happy with her or with what she did. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Since both SC and JB appear to have had a 'difficult' relationship with June surely it begs the question whether the problem was with SC and JB or June?  Whose idea was it to adopt? 

[Holly Goodhead]

Who cares?... both stars, aren't they?   Jeremy doesn't even remember that he didn't get on with his mum......

http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/happy-mothers-day.html

He certainly doesn't seem to remember much about the silencer:

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/silencer

1.  Silencers are legal.  The Bamber owned silencer was purchased legitimately from a registered gun dealer in Colchester:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=531.0;attach=1673

2. Firearms make 3 sounds:

a) Mechanical parts moving
b) Muzzle blast ie propellant leaving a guns barrel and hitting the atmosphere
c) Bullets breaking the sound barrier ie bullet travelling faster than the speed of sound = supersonic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-keuXw5xfRs

A silencer is only capable of of dealing with the sound from b).

The bullets used in the shootings were subsonic so not even capable of travelling at supersonic speed with the .22 calibre rifle.

What would be the purpose of JB lying about the above?  None as far as I can see.  I think 30 years of incarceration has taken its toll and he has no real idea about his case.  If he did he wouldn't be making statements such as those above.   

 

[Myster]

Since both SC and JB appear to have had a 'difficult' relationship with June surely it begs the question whether the problem was with SC and JB or June?  Whose idea was it to adopt?

Geez... you don't half rabbit on!!!  I can see smoke rising from your keyboard!

JB appears to have been honest in his police interviews re his relationship with June describing it as "rough and smooth"

A hell of a lot more rough than smooth as according to Mary Mugford's testimony he hated and never spoke to her.  I know who I'd believe.

The adoption and silencer issues have been covered before and done to death.  You'll end up talking to yourself if they're repeated constantly.

This obsession with Jeremy Bamber isn't healthy, Holly.  I hope you don't think David Bain is innocent as well?  &%+((£

[puglove]

Who cares?... both stars, aren't they?   Jeremy doesn't even remember that he didn't get on with his mum......

http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/happy-mothers-day.html

Ugh. I have never read so much crap in my life. And..."Mum could make cakes to die for." Could he write anything more clumsy and callous?

What an utter, utter cock.

[Myster]

Ugh. I have never read so much crap in my life. And..."Mum could make cakes to die for." Could he write anything more clumsy and callous?

What an utter, utter cock.

I winced too, reading that last shameless paragraph.  Bamber never tires of canvassing for the sympathy vote.

See Jane Andrews is up for parole and the Cressmans aren't very thrilled.  God help any man who shacks up with this female Psycho... sickening.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fergies-killer-aide-jane-andrews-5737742