New video on the case:

[Holly Goodhead]

Ugh. I have never read so much crap in my life. And..."Mum could make cakes to die for." Could he write anything more clumsy and callous?

What an utter, utter cock.

I read the above post a while ago and found it overall uncomfortable reading as its too gushing for my liking.  I must admit I hadn't picked up on the above.  I guess for those who see JB as potentially a MoJ it might not register.  However now you've highlighted it puglove I think its completely inappropriate regardless of anyone's views on the case.  Lets hope the CT read this forum and see fit to amend it.

[Holly Goodhead]

Geez... you don't half rabbit on!!!  I can see smoke rising from your keyboard!

And some!!!  Still cant compete with Scipio's flames!
 

JB appears to have been honest in his police interviews re his relationship with June describing it as "rough and smooth"

A hell of a lot more rough than smooth as according to Mary Mugford's testimony he hated and never spoke to her.  I know who I'd believe.

Whenever I hear Mary Mugford's name it reminds me of my fave childhood tv prog: Mary, Mungo and Midge 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfaaEcEzPxw

If Mary Mugford was aware that June referred to her daughter as a harlot and offered to buy her a property as she didn't like her staying over at JB's (rolling eyes emoticon required) she probably understood JB's position.  JB might have even gone along with the religious zealot to appease her.  According to JM's WS June turned up at Goldhanger with SC when JB was working but JM present and June completely ignored JM - didn't even introduce SC to JM.  Assuming its true how rude and weird:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1090

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=284.0;attach=1092

(Bottom of first, top of second).

The adoption and silencer issues have been covered before and done to death.  You'll end up talking to yourself if they're repeated constantly.

Oh no    I much prefer mass debating 

We haven't previously touched on JB's understanding of the silencer, or rather lack of, or whose decision it was to adopt.  Even in his police interviews he makes ref to the purpose of the silencer being "To stop the crack of the bullet going above the speed of sound".  This is completely wrong as per the post above.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1300

This obsession with Jeremy Bamber isn't healthy, Holly.  I hope you don't think David Bain is innocent as well?  &%+((£

Obsession  &%+((£  Just cos I sleep with his letters under my pillow and stroke each one lovingly every night before I drop off doesn't make me obsessed just a little bit sad 

I don't know enough about the Bain case to have any strong views either way.  From what little I do know I'm inclined to see DB innocent.  What would be the motivation for DB to murder his family?  There doesn't seem to be anything in his past?  Other family members appear to have had problems: Parents estranged with RB confined to a caravan in the garden.  The sister was apparently a prostitute, had been raped and in an incestuous relationship with her father.  I would look here before elsewhere.  Same in the Bamber case June and SC were the ones with issues not JB.   

[Myster]

I'll come back to this little lot again... big job broken out tomorrow, so need to be up and off early.

Plus my laptop is playing up and this text editor is lagging for some reason.

[Holly Goodhead]

I think the following shows what a liability DS Jones was into the investigation of the WHF murders.  At 30.57 he states "If she'd had to load that cartridge case twice with her long manicured fingernails they'd have broken.  There's no doubt whatsoever".  Really  &%+((£

What made DS Jones so sure he was competent to give an opinion when Dr Vanezis the pathologist said he was not competent to state whether SC's nails would be damaged?

DS Jones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=30m57s

Dr Vanezis

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

Farm Girl - loading cartridges, chambering round and firing gun multiple times with long manicured and polished nails

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdAI9j_lDbc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m21s

[Myster]

I think the following shows what a liability DS Jones was into the investigation of the WHF murders.  At 30.57 he states "If she'd had to load that cartridge case twice with her long manicured fingernails they'd have broken.  There's no doubt whatsoever".  Really  &%+((£

What made DS Jones so sure he was competent to give an opinion when Dr Vanezis the pathologist said he was not competent to state whether SC's nails would be damaged?

DS Jones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=30m57s

Dr Vanezis

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=742

Farm Girl - loading cartridges, chambering round and firing gun multiple times with long manicured and polished nails

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdAI9j_lDbc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m21s

Stan Jones?... a liability!!!?  He was the best asset Essex Police had... TJ was the stumbling block regarding the Bamber case.

Have you written to Farm Girl to ask if she was doped up with Haldol when loading that magazine?

Mmmm... methinks there's a bit of psychological warfare afoot here.  &%+((£   You keep putting semi-naked floozy vids up to get me all hot and bovvered so that eventually I'll agree with you... but it ain't gonna work, madam!

Sheila Caffell's undamaged thumbnail (other nails most likely the same as SJ, BM, PV, etc. observed)...



You'd be better e-mailing an actual Police firearms squad with female members to enquire if they normally keep their fingernails short and what would happen if they loaded magazines with them long!

[Holly Goodhead]

Stan Jones?... a liability!!!?  He was the best asset Essex Police had... TJ was the stumbling block regarding the Bamber case.

Have you written to Farm Girl to ask if she was doped up with Haldol when loading that magazine?

Mmmm... methinks there's a bit of psychological warfare afoot here.  &%+((£   You keep putting semi-naked floozy vids up to get me all hot and bovvered so that eventually I'll agree with you... but it ain't gonna work, madam!

Sheila Caffell's undamaged thumbnail (other nails most likely the same as SJ, BM, PV, etc. observed)...



You'd be better e-mailing an actual Police firearms squad with female members to enquire if they normally keep their fingernails short and what would happen if they loaded magazines with them long!

Police forces and the military have rules about length of fingernails, nail polish, hairstyles, tattoos etc based on looking professional rather than anything getting in the way of operations.  The US military (seems to be common to other countries) stipulate female nail length is no longer than one quarter of an inch from the finger tip:

"All personnel will keep fingernails clean and neatly trimmed. Females will not exceed a nail length of 1/4 inch, as measured from the tip of the finger. Females will trim nails shorter if the commander determines that the longer length detracts from the military image, presents a safety concern, or interferes with the performance of duties."

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/army/a/armygrooming_3.htm

Rules also apply to varnish:

"Females will not wear shades of lipstick and nail polish that distinctly contrast with their complexion, that detract from the uniform, or that are extreme. Some examples of extreme colors include, but are not limited to, purple, gold, blue, black, white, bright (fire-engine) red, khaki, camouflage colors, and fluorescent colors. Soldiers will not apply designs to nails or apply two-tone or multi-tone colors to nails."

If Haloperidol impacts a persons ability to operate a gun I would have thought it would feature on the UK Governments list of drugs to consult GP about if driving a motor vehicle?  It doesn't:

https://www.gov.uk/drug-driving-law

[Myster]

If Haloperidol impacts a persons ability to operate a gun I would have thought it would feature on the UK Governments list of drugs to consult GP about if driving a motor vehicle?  It doesn't:

https://www.gov.uk/drug-driving-law

Pill-rolling motion and Parkinson-like symptoms (ignoring the other side-effects pertaining to elderly women)...

http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDetail.do?dname=Haldol+Decanoate&sid=3626&eid=1875

... and I don't think Sheila drove a car.

[Holly Goodhead]

Pill-rolling motion and Parkinson-like symptoms (ignoring the other side-effects pertaining to elderly women)...

http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDetail.do?dname=Haldol+Decanoate&sid=3626&eid=1875

... and I don't think Sheila drove a car.

As previously discussed I can't see any evidence that SC had problems with co-ordination.  There's nothing in her medical notes to this effect and she demonstrated her fine motor movement was ok by way of personal grooming: shaped eyebrows, styled hair, applying full face make-up, manicuring and polishing her nails.

SC didn't drive.  She had no need to living in London and had a lack of funds to purchase and maintain a car.  The point I was endeavouring to make is that Haloperidol is not on the Governments list of prescribed drugs to discuss with GP if driving.

The manufacturers of Haloperidol state less than 1 in 100 users of the drug might suffer

• Parkinsonism (characterised by tremor, rigidity or postural instability)

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/spcpil/documents/spcpil/con1409897406427.pdf

The above post/vid with maker of your horniness shows how straightforward it is to load the mag, chamber a round and fire rounds.  If SC was truly hopeless in this regard how did she cope with say a twin buggy and vacuum attachments?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_LA_m22URg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrqkWXCFo0Y
(That's a novelty a man with a vacuum cleaner  )

[Holly Goodhead]

DB tells about the finding of the silencer.  According to him it was "sticky to the touch" with a "small spot of blood".  What happened to the paint and hair?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=29m30s

AE's WS tells of blood and paint?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=3110

DI Miller tells of blood, paint and a hair?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OlvzCVrmc&feature=youtu.be&t=14m

Crispy tells of blood, paint, a hair and the kitchen sink?

 *&*%£

[Holly Goodhead]

DB tells of a small spot of blood on the silencer and that it was quickly put to one side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=29m30s

but the CoA document states that the relatives "examined" the silencer and found blood and red paint on it.  The FSS found blood in 3 locations on the outside of the silencer.

74. The silencer was taken to Ann Eaton's address for safekeeping and that evening members of the family examined it. They noticed that the "gun blue" of the surface had been damaged and there appeared to be red paint and blood upon it. The moderator was packaged up and the police were informed of the discovery. When collected by DS Jones on 12 August he noticed a grey hair, about an inch long attached to it. By the time the moderator had been delivered to the Forensic Science Service at Huntingdon the hair had been lost.

Scientific examination of the sound moderator 75. Traces of blood in the form of smears were found in three places on the outside of the moderator: on the flat surface at the muzzle end, in the knurled end and in the ridge at the gun end of the device. The blood on the outside of the moderator was confirmed to be of human origin but there were insufficient quantities to permit grouping analysis.

AE tells that DB and PE "examined" the silencer and she observed blood and paint on it.  But DB in his vid said he observed a small spot of blood and quickly put it to one side. 

I'm confused and my head is hurting very, very much 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3564

[Myster]

As previously discussed I can't see any evidence that SC had problems with co-ordination. There's nothing in her medical notes to this effect and she demonstrated her fine motor movement was ok by way of personal grooming: shaped eyebrows, styled hair, applying full face make-up, manicuring and polishing her nails.
 *&*%£

SC didn't drive.  She had no need to living in London and had a lack of funds to purchase and maintain a car.  The point I was endeavouring to make is that Haloperidol is not on the Governments list of prescribed drugs to discuss with GP if driving.

The manufacturers of Haloperidol state less than 1 in 100 users of the drug might suffer

• Parkinsonism (characterised by tremor, rigidity or postural instability)

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/spcpil/documents/spcpil/con1409897406427.pdf

The above post/vid with maker of your horniness shows how straightforward it is to load the mag, chamber a round and fire rounds. If SC was truly hopeless in this regard how did she cope with say a twin buggy and vacuum attachments?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_LA_m22URg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrqkWXCFo0Y
(That's a novelty a man with a vacuum cleaner  )

But Sheila was used to personal grooming, having been trained at Lucie Claytons and through her modelling work - it's a girly thing... but she wasn't familiar with a newish Anschutz 525.

The first Dyson, a DC01 was only introduced in 1993, so Sheila never got the chance to use one. Complicated attachments and assemblies weren't commonplace in '85 for Hoovers and Electrolux cylinders.  I've got a DC04, DC05 and one of the first DC02's which is still going strong, and use them all by myself, no sweat - a woman would miss underneath the furniture and room corners. You should read James Dyson's autobiography “Against The Odds” about the struggle to get his cleaners financed and manufactured. JD like JB was a product of Gresham's but how very different their lives turned out. They had the same Headmaster too - Logie Bruce-Lockhart.

Can't say the same about buggies though... messing about with those is a woman's job.
Your horniness description fits me to a tee!

[Holly Goodhead]

But Sheila was used to personal grooming, having been trained at Lucie Claytons and through her modelling work - it's a girly thing... but she wasn't familiar with a newish Anschutz 525.

The first Dyson, a DC01 was only introduced in 1993, so Sheila never got the chance to use one. Complicated attachments and assemblies weren't commonplace in '85 for Hoovers and Electrolux cylinders.  I've got a DC04, DC05 and one of the first DC02's which is still going strong, and use them all by myself, no sweat - a woman would miss underneath the furniture and room corners. You should read James Dyson's autobiography “Against The Odds” about the struggle to get his cleaners financed and manufactured. JD like JB was a product of Gresham's but how very different their lives turned out. They had the same Headmaster too - Logie Bruce-Lockhart.

Can't say the same about buggies though... messing about with those is a woman's job.
Your horniness description fits me to a tee!

I read SC attended finishing school, secretarial college and a Lucie Clayton modelling course.  However I'm now wondering if there's some overlap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucie_Clayton_Charm_Academy

Regardless of any formal training and her level of competence in personal grooming eg shaping eyebrows, manicuring nails and applying nail polish, applying full face make-up, styling her hair etc she would still require fine motor skills to carry out these tasks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_motor_skill

I appreciate Dysons were not around in '85 but vacuums from that period still had several attachments.  The point being SC lived a full independent life as mum to the twins and must have been able to use a range of equipment including baby/child care equipment, household appliances and cooking utensils.  I doubt she receieved any formal instruction by way of 'How to... ' etc.  Loading the mag, chambering a round and firing a rifle doesn't look any more complicated. 

Please...take another look at Farm Girl in the vid above and compare the bio-mechanical processes with putting up and down the twin buggy and attaching and removing the various appliances to the Dyson (vids above).

If you disagree I might have to send Farm Girl round to convince you otherwise!  See her here firing various weapons with her long nails polished in pearl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKXzm3jyw8I

This is so cute Farm Girl with her piglets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGjYHsVJ2jM

Yes JB stands out like a sore thumb amongst old Greshamians incl James Dyson (both on list)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Old_Greshamians

The UK doesn't seem to rate inventors/designers.  It's more banking and biotech. 

[Holly Goodhead]

DS Jones said in the vid "He put up a terrific struggle with the person responsible"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=4m

Dr Vanezis said NB put up a "spirited defence"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=682

DS Jones "He had marks on his back, round circular marks, which appeared as if he'd been forced downstairs"

Was the author of "Gun forced into back?" DS Jones?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=680

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=4m15s

I don't believe the round circular marks had anything to do with the tragedy at WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=292.msg134570#msg134570

DS Jones "She had two shots to her neck.  I understand the first one wouldn't have been fatal but I would think possibly knock her out"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcTvqLk0MWU&feature=youtu.be&t=6m

45. Sheila Caffell was also dressed in her nightwear and bare-footed. She had received two contact or near contact bullet wounds to her throat. The higher of the two wounds would have killed her almost instantaneously. The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately and a person having suffered such an injury may have been able to stand up and walk around for a little time. The lack of heavy blood staining to Sheila Caffell's nightdress suggested that this had not happened here. The lower of the two injuries must have been the first since it had led to haemorrhaging inside the neck and this would not have occurred to the same extent if the other wound, which would have been immediately fatal, had preceded it. Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle

It seems DS Jones put his own interpretation on the pathological evidence and was allowed free rein to influence the direction of the investigation.  Even sending JB's recent defence on a wild goose chase re the burns to NB's back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo&feature=youtu.be&t=16m35s

[Myster]

I read SC attended finishing school, secretarial college and a Lucie Clayton modelling course.  However I'm now wondering if there's some overlap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucie_Clayton_Charm_Academy

Regardless of any formal training and her level of competence in personal grooming eg shaping eyebrows, manicuring nails and applying nail polish, applying full face make-up, styling her hair etc she would still require fine motor skills to carry out these tasks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_motor_skill
I appreciate Dysons were not around in '85 but vacuums from that period still had several attachments.  The point being SC lived a full independent life as mum to the twins and must have been able to use a range of equipment including baby/child care equipment, household appliances and cooking utensils.  I doubt she receieved any formal instruction by way of 'How to... ' etc.  Loading the mag, chambering a round and firing a rifle doesn't look any more complicated. 

Please...take another look at Farm Girl in the vid above and compare the bio-mechanical processes with putting up and down the twin buggy and attaching and removing the various appliances to the Dyson (vids above).

If you disagree I might have to send Farm Girl round to convince you otherwise!  See her here firing various weapons with her long nails polished in pearl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKXzm3jyw8I

This is so cute Farm Girl with her piglets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGjYHsVJ2jM

Yes JB stands out like a sore thumb amongst old Greshamians incl James Dyson (both on list)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Old_Greshamians

The UK doesn't seem to rate inventors/designers.  It's more banking and biotech.

SC was probably more suited to simpler catwalk tuition rather than the more demanding secretarial side.

Speaking of assembly skills, when I fitted a new clutch on a Dyson it was by trial and error and took a long time because I'd never done it before. Likewise with the easier task of replacing a broken belt. Similarly, say if I'd never used a semi-auto rifle and, god forbid, was in the throes of shooting my whole family in the middle of the night, loading and fitting a magazine three times on the fly would be difficult without being shown or figuring out how to do it first, giving others time to overpower and stop me in the process. In one of the David Bain videos there's a demo given by an expert in court showing how a magazine is loaded and even he was slow and hesitant in explaining it to the jury.

I totally disagree... so when is Farm Girl paying me a visit?  Remind her to bring her bazookas (the soft squidgy type, I mean).

It would have been more exciting if she'd dropped her top and started feeding them, like the thumbnail pics at the end of the video. Wish I had a curvy 50 year old girlfriend who paraded about half-naked while Dysoning the carpet. Come to think about it, this fella's given me ideas...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3102225/Wash-dishes-bit-dusting-naked-Pensioner-places-job-advert-hire-20-hour-nude-cleaner-gets-11-replies-week.html?offset=0&max=100&jumpTo=comment-87439719#comment-87439719

Relegated to the "Other" division... wonder what the respectable "Others" think about being lumped together with a murderer?

[puglove]

Holl, if there was ANY human blood in the baffles, it proves that Bamber did it.

You do know that, don't you?

Sorry if that blows your theory out of the water, my duck.

Best love and toodly pip.

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