Author Topic: New video on the case:  (Read 96900 times)

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Offline John

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #135 on: June 01, 2015, 09:33:32 PM »
He had the benefit of four police officers with him at the pm to brief him and all officers prior to the examination concluded 4 murders/1 suicide.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=738

Did they all see Sheila lying on the floor in the bedroom?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #136 on: June 01, 2015, 09:45:29 PM »
But he wasn't "straight-talking" he deliberately deceived and lied to JB during his police interviews:

Here he states the first wound was fatal and would have killed SC and that she didn't kill herself.  Not true the pathologist has always made it clear he was unable to confirm murder or suicide.  DS Jones, and the opinion of others, do not take precedence over the pathologist's.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1304

Here he states that none of JB's prints were found on the rifle.  Not true - one was found:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1328

Stan Jones also states that "at this moment in time" only one fingerprint of Sheila's was on the stock, so maybe the rifle hadn't been fully analysed yet and he isn't telling a porkies at all!
Blimey!.. this forum's red hot tonight... Miss Marple the Second's doing overtime!  8(*(
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 10:17:41 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #138 on: June 01, 2015, 10:17:06 PM »
Stan Jones also states that "at this moment in time" only one fingerprint of Sheila's was on the stock, so maybe the rifle hadn't been fully analysed yet and he isn't telling a porkies at all!
Blimey!.. this forum's red hot tonight... Miss Marple the Second's doing overtime!  8(*(

The interview was conducted on 12th September '85 so if the outcome of fingerprints was an unknown on the central exhibit some 5 weeks later why?

At the end of the interview he actually corrects himself:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1340
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #139 on: June 12, 2015, 06:19:08 PM »
I agree it doesn't appear SC moved but some sort of reflex action cannot be ruled out eg cadaveric spasm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaveric_spasm

The rifle was a semi-auto so the slightest touch of the trigger would release another bullet.  Dr Vanezis said he had experienced 4 or 5 suicides with two gunshot wounds.

If SC's state at the soc was indicative of murder why did EP wait some 30 days to interview JB under caution and a further 20 plus days to arrest and charge him?  Plus allow him to leave the country and return under his own steam.  Dr Vanezis said all four officers present at the pm concluded they were dealing with 4 murders and a suicide.  If they had any doubts why not discuss them with Dr Vanezis during the post mortem?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=738

Initially DS Jones was the only dissenter.  He was not some high flying police officer.  At the time of the murders he was 45 yoa and only a DS.  I would like to know about the entry requirements and recruitment practices at the time DS Jones was recruited.

1) Multiple shot suicides feature people who fail to kill themselves with the first shot and then actively decide to fire a second shot not people who fire a gun a second time and nearly all of these feature the people choosing different loactions for the second or third shots.

2) As has been pointed out to you numerous times a cadaveric spasm results in the body freezeing and the oNLY wepaon that such could cause to fire again is a fully automatic wepaon because a fully automatic weapon fires until the trigger is released.

3) The second shot was under her chin not in her neck, a double tap of the trigger (which would not be the result of a cadaveric spasm) would result in the seocnd wound being much closer to the first not a totally different trajectory.  The trajectory of the first shot is nearly level from the fromnt of her neck to the back indicating the weapon was fired at nearly a 90 degree angle to her neck whereas the second shot was through her chin into her brain. 

4) After the first shot Sheila stuck her right outer palm/wrist to her wound and blood flowed down to her elbow. If she had shot herself she would have needed to put the gun down in order to do this and then to pick it up again to fire the fatal shot because dead people can't move their arms.

5) Sheila can't have shot herself.  Not only would she have had GSR on her hands and clothign and soot on her clothing had she shot herself, the angle of the shots would have been different and most importantly Sheila was shot while seated which resulted in the blood flowing down her shoulder/side of her breast with the moderator attached.  The killer removed the moderator and hid it in the closet.  Then the killer moved her body flat in order to stick the gun on top of her body.  At that point the blood flow changed.  A little bit of blood on her shoulder was still wet and proceeded to run down the side of her shoulder. Some blood was still in her neck and that ran down the side of her neck to the floor where it pooled.  After the pool formed but while this blood was still wet the killer stuck the Bible in it.

It is quite obvious that Sheila didn't shoot anyone else either or beat Nevill. Had she done so then she would have had evidence on her clothing and body the killer was particularly full of Nevill's blood after beating him.  The notion Sheila decided to wash up to conceal she had killed them is nonsense and she could not have gotten rid of her blood/GSR/soot stained clothing- it would have been found at the scene.  Clearly she didn't kill everyone else then clean up and prepare for someone else to kill her like the members of the doomesday cult you love to bring up did. The same person who killed her clearly killed everyone else as well.

You have nothing to establish Jeremy's innocence or that Sheila did a thing.  You thus resort to desperation at every turn including the desperate account that because police were initially fooled by Jeremy's claims and the staging this proves it was a murder suicide.  By definitil their initial thoughts are worthless.  What counts is what the evidence proves after it is processed.  They had no idea whether she had GSR on her hands or clothign or whose blood was on her clothing.  They didn't know Jeremy was lying about her being proficient with all the wepaons in the house.  They didn't know the moderator was used.  They didn't know Nevill had been shot in the bedroom along with June before things progressed to the kitchen or that Nevill was unable to speak after his initial wounds.  Taff Jones' initial assessment was WAAAAAAAAY off the mark:



Right off the bat he misread the scene by ignoring the blood in the bed that proved June had been shot in bed. His theory featured Sheila grabbing the gun after Nevill was already on the phone with Jeremy which makes no sense.   It makes no sense for Nevill to call Jeremy then for her to grab the gun and Nevill to at that point convey to Jeremy that she had the gun.  Nor would it make sense to beat Nevill when she could have just shot him. She would have had a hard time beating his head in if he had not already been shot first.  He was much taller than her so how would she be able to bash his head in?  He had to first be knocked to the ground to be able to then bash his head in.   

The initial assessment was made from a position of relative ignorance so it not in the least bit helpful to establishing Jeremy is innocent.
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline John

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #140 on: June 22, 2015, 01:40:54 AM »
I think Essex Police were overwhelmed by the incident and were for the most part quite willing to go with Jeremy's story, at least until Julie Mugford spoke up and set them straight. It was then a case of salvaging the investigation despite much of the physical evidence having been burned by them in what was yet another CSI folly.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 12:47:26 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline APRIL

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #141 on: June 22, 2015, 09:01:18 AM »
I think Essex Police were overwhelmed by the incident and were for the most part quite willing to go with Jeremy's story, at least until Julie Mugford spoke up and set them straight. It was then a case of salvaging the investigation despite much of the physical evidence having been burned by them in what was yet another CSI folly.


Let's be honest. The story was plausible...................enough. It didn't set immediate alarm bells ringing. It allowed time for "superfluous" evidence to be discarded.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #142 on: June 22, 2015, 12:11:20 PM »
I think Essex Police were overwhelmed by the incident and were for the most part quite willing to go with Jeremy's story, at least until Julie Mugford spoke up and set them straight. It was then a case of salvaging the investigation despite much of the physical evidence having been burned by them in what was yet another CSI folly.

I thought the police were trained to deal with critical incidents?  IMO the only aspect of the case that overwhelmed EP was the influence the relatives brought to bear on the investigation.  For whatever reason(s) they appear to have been able to exert undue influence.  JM was simply a pawn.

As far as I'm aware the only physical evidence destroyed amounted to the main bedroom carpet and bedding.  It seems fairly obvious the blood staining on these items belonged to June (and the twins if their bedding was also destroyed).  I don't think anything further could be determined from these exhibits? 

As far as exhibits go I find it quite remarkable that the silencer was the only blood stained exhibit capable of turning up the ABO grouping AND the 2 enzymes AND 1 protein.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #143 on: June 29, 2015, 12:50:37 AM »
I thought the police were trained to deal with critical incidents?  IMO the only aspect of the case that overwhelmed EP was the influence the relatives brought to bear on the investigation.  For whatever reason(s) they appear to have been able to exert undue influence.  JM was simply a pawn.


They were completely out of their depth not having dealt with any similiar case previously.  DI Taff Jones' attitude to the murders was appalling, no wonder he was removed from it months later.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 12:40:19 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #144 on: June 29, 2015, 09:36:16 AM »
They were completely out of their depth not having dealt with any similiar case previously.  DI Taff Jones' attitude to the murders was appalling, no wonder he was removed from it months later.

The emergency services, incl the police, invest a lot of resources on training, planning and preparing for all eventualities including scenes of crime involving multiple murders and suicide. 

"Taff" Jones was a DCI not a DI.  The reason for his rank was that he demonstrated his capability over and above many of his peers present at WHF and those who you appear to hold in high regard.  Other officers who were present at WHF, and have over the years been only too happy to contribute to programmes such as  'Crimes that shook Britain', 'Killing Mum and Dad', 'Slaughter at the farm' and Behind Manion Walls, never progressed beyond the rank of DI.

Chief Superintendent Albert Harris was the most senior officer present when the raid team broke in.  He observed the victims in situ with Dr Craig.  Other senior officers also present included Chief Inspector Clarke and Chief Inspector Gibbons.  I can only assume DCI Jones was a convenient scapegoat due to his untimely death in a tragic accident. 

Why do we never hear from the above senior officers in the above mentioned programmes?  Instead we hear from lowly ranked officers such as DS Jones who was only too happy to share his views; a man barely capable of coherent speech!  I've previously questioned past police recruitment practices and entry requirements.  Paul Harrison tells in his book "The cupboard under the stairs: A boy trapped in hell" how when he failed his police entrance exams (circa 1977) he was able to circumvent the system by a spot of nepotism.

Statement from Chief Superintendent Albert Harris:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=157.msg1746#msg1746

Police Rank Structure:

https://www.policeuk.com/police_ranks.php



 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 11:11:29 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #145 on: June 29, 2015, 11:34:25 AM »
Also it appears that DCI Jones did not toodle off for a round of golf but attended a pre-arranged meeting with Chief Superintendant Albert Harris and Chelmsford Head Post Office:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=157.0;attach=108

I am as convinced as ever JB is the victim of a MoJ and confident his conviction will eventually be overturned.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #146 on: June 29, 2015, 12:43:56 PM »
Also it appears that DCI Jones did not toodle off for a round of golf but attended a pre-arranged meeting with Chief Superintendant Albert Harris and Chelmsford Head Post Office:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=157.0;attach=108

I am as convinced as ever JB is the victim of a MoJ and confident his conviction will eventually be overturned.

The substantial evidence says differently Holly, I would have thought you had realised that by now and not let semantics get in the way?

There isn't a single shred of evidence which supports Jeremy Bamber's claim of innocence and that is reality no matter how many authors write fanciful books on the subject.  People would be better advised to donate their money to a needy cause instead of lining the pockets of people and publishers who want to get rich on the back of five murders including that of two young children.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 03:19:28 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #147 on: June 29, 2015, 02:53:42 PM »
The substantial evidence says differently Holly, I would have thought you had realised that by now and not let semantics get in the way?
The "substantial evidence" amounted to the silencer and JM's testimony both of which were gathered by DS Jones days and weeks later and are surrounded by much controversy.  Without this "substantial evidence" it's unlikely the CPS/DPP would have constructed a case against JB. 

There isn't a single shred of evidence which supports Jeremy Bamber's claim of innocence and that is reality no matter how many authors write fanciful books on the subject.  People would be better advised to donate their money to a needy cause instead of lining the pockets of people and publishers who want to get rich on the back of five murders including that of two young children.
If the evidence is as strong as you are suggesting John it makes no sense to me that EP allowed JB to roam freely for weeks on end and leave the country.  He wasn't even interviewed under caution until some 5 weeks after the tragedy.

I guess one of the benefits of living in a democratic country with a free market economy is that authors pretty much have a free hand to write what they wish subject to the laws of the land re libel etc.  Unlikely that any publisher would get involved in such a project if they didn't think there was a market for such books.  Let consumers/readers vote with their purchases or not!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #148 on: June 29, 2015, 03:15:08 PM »
The "substantial evidence" amounted to the silencer and JM's testimony both of which were gathered by DS Jones days and weeks later and are surrounded by much controversy.  Without this "substantial evidence" it's unlikely the CPS/DPP would have constructed a case against JB.

No Holly, the substantial evidence is all the forensics taken from the crime scene which rules Sheila out.  Julie's statements and testimony was the icing on the cake and effectively sealed Jerry's fate.


If the evidence is as strong as you are suggesting John it makes no sense to me that EP allowed JB to roam freely for weeks on end and leave the country.  He wasn't even interviewed under caution until some 5 weeks after the tragedy.

I guess one of the benefits of living in a democratic country with a free market economy is that authors pretty much have a free hand to write what they wish subject to the laws of the land re libel etc.  Unlikely that any publisher would get involved in such a project if they didn't think there was a market for such books.  Let consumers/readers vote with their purchases or not!

Essex Police made a huge error in the beginning granted but they salvaged the situation in the end.  As I stated earlier, the head of CID was not used to dealing with murders let alone five at once, he was overwhelmed and made basic errors.  Thankfully, he was moved from the case and a more experienced officer saw it through to Jeremy's conviction.

Headline Publications thought they were onto a winner with the Summers and Swan book about Madeleine McCann and look what happened there. 

www.amazon.co.uk/Looking-For-Madeleine-Anthony-Summers/dp/1472211618
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 12:17:42 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: New video on the case:
« Reply #149 on: June 29, 2015, 04:54:52 PM »
No Holly, the substantial evidence is all the forensics taken from the crime scene which rules Sheila out.  Julie's statements and testimony was the icing on the cake and effectively sealed Jerry's fate.

So why wait some 5 weeks to interview JB under caution and a further 2 weeks or so to arrest and charge him if the case was clear cut?  The evidence gathered at soc by EP was analysed in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy and the results made available weeks before JB's arrest.  If the case pointed towards a guilty JB based on aspects such as SC's appearance, which were immediately visible at the soc to the likes of Chief Superintendent Albert Harris, why not take JB to the station immediately and interview him under caution and conduct a thorough search of Bourtree Cottage?   

Essex Police made a huge error in the beginning granted but they salvaged the situation in the end.  As I stated earlier, the head of CID was not used to dealing with murders let alone five at once, he was overwhelmed and made basic errors.  Thankfully, he was moved from the case and a more experienced officer saw it through to Jeremy's conviction.

As far as I'm concerned the only error EP made was allowing the relatives to take over the investigation.  Who is "he"?  Chief Superintendent Albert Harris?  As far as I can see he was the most senior officer at the soc and the officer with ultimate responsibility.  Who was the "more experienced officer"?  DS Jones?   

Headline Publications thought they were onto a winner with the Summers and Swan book about Madeleine McCann and look what happened there. 

www.amazon.co.uk/Looking-For-Madeleine-Anthony-Summers/dp/1472211618

I don't know...what happened? 

I agree I don't think CAL and PH will be turning up anything substantially new but that's not to say that an author will not emerge at a future date with something substantially new.

I'm sure those new to the case will appreciate the books if true crime floats their boat.  Lets see what the books reviews turn up on the likes of Amazon.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?