Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.

[Holly Goodhead]

Anyhoo. I'll leave you in peace, but you need to know this. If you look at Sheila, she had no muscle tone on her upper arms. BT gave me a gun to scare off the magpies that were stealing the swallow babies. It was the exact same gun involved in the WHF murders. It's not huge, but it's cumbersome. And long, without a silencer. My arms are strong, but when I tried to aim, I waved the gun all over the place. It seriously isn't something you can just pick up and be precise with. If you don't know what you're doing, and if you're not used to the weight and length, you would be all over the place. It's almost double the length of your arm. And I had no idea how to reload.

Holl, the gun involved is heavy and long. I know you've done your homework, but I doubt if you've handled said gun. Sorry to preach, but I doubt that anyone (much less Sheila) would find a loaded gun left on the settle and execute the family without having knowledge of previous shootings and re-loadings. And a loaded gun wouldn't have been left out, anyway. Sheila (even if she was tired and poorly), June, or Nevill would have made the gun, that didn't exist, safe.

Bamber is such a flake. And you are far too bright to fall for his crap. Are you still going with Sheila shooting herself twice?

According to the following the rifle weighs 6llbs 5oz.  I will try and find something more reliable from the manufacturers.

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/anschutz/semi-auto/22-lr/525-170513140023001

https://www.gunstar.co.uk/anschutz-525-semi-auto-22-rifles/rifles/937328

Assuming the above is accurate, or there about, it isn't heavy.  The length is 43".    All shots were point blank.  How far away were the magpies? 

No I haven't handled the same gun.  The only gun I've ever handled and fired was my brother's air rifle and I've no idea of make/model.  I don't recall any difficulty.  I was just frightened it might backfire!

I agree the chances are June or most likely NB put the rifle away, assuming JB left it where he said he did, but given the weapons/ammo were readily accessible I don't see how this would prevent SC accessing it if she was of a mind to do so.

15 mins in ballistics expert Philip Boyce seems to think even a small child child could handle the rifle.  Dessert Fox and Charlie Wilkes on IA were of the same opinion having experienced numerous cases in US involving children as perps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo

https://www.forensicequity.com/philip-boyce

The pathological evidence states it was possible SC fired a second shot.  It seems from Dr Vanezis and Prof Knight there was a gap of at least a few second between the shots but can some sort of involuntary spasm be ruled out if SC didn't make a conscious effort to pull the trigger a second time?   

[puglove]

Ooh er. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to tell a BURGLAR that you're going to be out all day on Saturday.   

[Holly Goodhead]

Ooh er. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to tell a BURGLAR that you're going to be out all day on Saturday.   

As daft as they come.

[puglove]

As daft as they come.

I hear that she recently returned from one of her regular sulks, immediately upset the forum and had to have another ton of posts deleted.     &%&£(+

If only she spent less time abusing the family, crowing about her own personality flaws and insulting June and Sheila, and actually bothered to read up on the case, she might not embarrass herself so much. And so often.

(And I know that you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. There is hope for Clappedout. But it takes a shit-load of sausages).


 

[Holly Goodhead]

I hear that she recently returned from one of her regular sulks, immediately upset the forum and had to have another ton of posts deleted.     &%&£(+

If only she spent less time abusing the family, crowing about her own personality flaws and insulting June and Sheila, and actually bothered to read up on the case, she might not embarrass herself so much. And so often.

(And I know that you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. There is hope for Clappedout. But it takes a shit-load of sausages).

 

Couldn't agree more.  Lookout's posts are like an almost healed scab which should be avoided and ignored but give perverse pleasure when picked off and examined 

NGB spent all yesterday afternoon sorting out spats amongst the ladies of the  knitting circle.  Unsurprisingly Lookout was at the centre of it all.  Anyway apparently Mrs NGB has given Mr NGB one helluva an ear bashing as he has totally neglected the list of chores she drew up for him earlier in the day including hoovering up leaves and tightening up taps.
 
 

[puglove]

Lookout, it's quite simple. You can hardly complain about abuse when YOU abuse decent people, who you have NEVER met, systematically, 7 days a week.

Maybe you should think about that.

[Holly Goodhead]

I'm sure mental health charities will be very interested in seeing my screen shots showing a former mental health nurse denigrating SC and not a word from NGB.

[Holly Goodhead]

Lookout/NGB

Before your start casting aspersions here about cyberbullying or such like perhaps the pair of you would like to reflect on some of Lookout's historic posts about the late Sheila Caffell:

"Sheila, we know,, was sexually active at 17, (promiscuous I'd have said) we've no information before then."

"The poor woman wouldn't/didn't know how to deal with Sheilas monstrous behaviour as a teen,,, as I would have said then the girl was on a downward spiral".

"Where did Sheila get her promiscuity from?  It certainly wasn't June or Nevill".

"Where were Sheila's morals to have allowed pics like that to be taken ? Sickening !!"

Lookout has no evidence whatsoever to support any of the above.  She constantly denigrates the late Sheila Caffell and you NGB (and Maggie) do nothing to rein her in.  The pair of you then have the audacity to complain because puglove attempts to do what the pair of you should be doing.

Lookouts comments amount to cyberbullying ie denigration of character, spreading falsehoods etc.

 

[puglove]

Lookout/NGB

Before your start casting aspersions here about cyberbullying or such like perhaps the pair of you would like to reflect on some of Lookout's historic posts about the late Sheila Caffell:

"Sheila, we know,, was sexually active at 17, (promiscuous I'd have said) we've no information before then."

"The poor woman wouldn't/didn't know how to deal with Sheilas monstrous behaviour as a teen,,, as I would have said then the girl was on a downward spiral".

"Where did Sheila get her promiscuity from?  It certainly wasn't June or Nevill".

"Where were Sheila's morals to have allowed pics like that to be taken ? Sickening !!"

Lookout has no evidence whatsoever to support any of the above.  She constantly denigrates the late Sheila Caffell and you NGB (and Maggie) do nothing to rein her in.  The pair of you then have the audacity to complain because puglove attempts to do what the pair of you should be doing.

Lookouts comments amount to cyberbullying ie denigration of character, spreading falsehoods etc.

It IS cyberbullying, the relentless, spiteful bullying of a murdered young woman. It's good to know that someone has been alerted to it. One has to question who is financing this bigotry....not to mention Mike's jaw-dropping filth. Because it certainly isn't Mike.

[Holly Goodhead]

It IS cyberbullying, the relentless, spiteful bullying of a murdered young woman. It's good to know that someone has been alerted to it. One has to question who is financing this bigotry....not to mention Mike's jaw-dropping filth. Because it certainly isn't Mike.

As the trial judge said, the case was unusual in that the perp was 1 of 2.  JB was found guilty.  I believe JB is the victim of a MoJ so by definition SC was the perp.  This in itself is bad enough ie laying the blame on someone who was absolved of all responsibility in a court of law.  To then add to this by making unfounded and unnecessary posts denigrating SC's character is appalling. 

CC has said in the past how upset his young daughter was to find SoC images of SC online.  Imagine how CC and SC's birth family might well feel reading Lookouts posts. 

[Angelo222]

As the trial judge said, the case was unusual in that the perp was 1 of 2.  JB was found guilty.  I believe JB is the victim of a MoJ so by definition SC was the perp.  This in itself is bad enough ie laying the blame on someone who was absolved of all responsibility in a court of law.  To then add to this by making unfounded and unnecessary posts denigrating SC's character is appalling. 

CC has said in the past how upset his young daughter was to find SoC images of SC online.  Imagine how CC and SC's birth family might well feel reading Lookouts posts.

It's really very simple, if you don't want to read something online then don't go searching for it.

As for the perp, how can you possibly think SC did it Holly when there isn't a scrap of evidence to support such a view and a mountain of evidence against Bamber.  With respect, are you not ignoring logic and the evidence in favour of wishful thinking?

[puglove]

It's really very simple, if you don't want to read something online then don't go searching for it.

As for the perp, how can you possibly think SC did it Holly when there isn't a scrap of evidence to support such a view and a mountain of evidence against Bamber.  With respect, are you not ignoring logic and the evidence in favour of wishful thinking?

I think that lookout's laptop must be possessed because apparently, completely unbidden, it showed her a poem some idiot had written about her. That is just freaky.     &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

It's really very simple, if you don't want to read something online then don't go searching for it.

As for the perp, how can you possibly think SC did it Holly when there isn't a scrap of evidence to support such a view and a mountain of evidence against Bamber.  With respect, are you not ignoring logic and the evidence in favour of wishful thinking?

We interpret the case differently and place different weights on the various aspects and arrive at different conclusions.

[John]

We interpret the case differently and place different weights on the various aspects and arrive at different conclusions.

Out of interest Holly, can you point to one piece of irrefutable evidence which supports the 'Sheila did it' scenario?

[Holly Goodhead]

Out of interest Holly, can you point to one piece of irrefutable evidence which supports the 'Sheila did it' scenario?

No! 

Is there any irrefutable evidence which supports the 'JB did it' scenario? 

From reading posts it seems to me most 'guilters' place a lot of weight on the following aspects of the case:

- Don't believe the phone call from NB to JB.
- Don't believe SC was able to load and handle firearm.
- Don't believe SC was able to overpower NB.
- Believe JM over JB.
- Believe various lay witness testimony and general media portrayal of JB's behaviour and character which tends to portray him in a poor light.

For those that place a lot of weight on the above aspects of the case then it's high likely they will view JB as guilty. 

My beliefs enable me to overcome the above and place more weight on the following aspects:

- SC's early development and disrutpive start to life due in part to June's poor mental health and having a variety of primary caregivers: birth mother, children's home, June, NB/foster carers, June/Nanny resulting in an 'attachment disorder'.  The science underpinning 'attachment' has moved on considerably over the last 30 years.   
- My own research provides some support that the forensic evidence provided to court/jurors is flawed: silencer/blood, hand swabs, SC's nightdress, reconstruction, explanation re fingerprints on rifle.
- The UK Gov has confirmed FSS failed quality measures in 1980's.
- MF appeared to lack the necessary experience and qualifications to provide the court with reliable testimony.  His testimony contradicts world experts from the US such as Dr Vincent DiMaio and Dr Herbert MacDonell who obviously have far more experience with gun crime/ballistics than MF.
- JB's defence at trial and 2002 appeal was very poor.
- Blood stain test results on the bible appear to have been withheld from the defence.
- I don't place any weight on JB's behaviour/character pre or post tragedy.
- I don't place any weight on lay witness testimony eg Barbara Wilson, JM, SB, relatives, James Richard, Doris Foakes, Charles Marsden etc, etc.
- I don't place any weight on low budget docu/dramas that also portray JB in a poor light eg armchair psychologists who have never met and formally assessed JB.  I understand in US such assessments by accredited psychologists are illegal.
- I don't place any weight on contributions from tabloid journalists eg Michael Fielder claimed JB was promiscious.  Firstly there's no evidence JB was promiscious.  Secondly even if he was so long as any partners consented then surely it is a private matter for the couple concerned?  Has anyone ever come forward and said he behaved inappropriately in this regard?  I'm surprised by people's attitude in this regard.  Are the likes of Michael Fielder chaste or jealous that JB was regarded by many as good looking, sexually desirable and potentially had more success with members of the opposite sex?  Many celebs are on record saying they've had sex with hundreds/thousands of women eg Mick Hucknall and Russell Brand spring to mind.  Maybe this is just wishful thinking on their part but assuming they have bedded a fair number of the opposite sex does it suggest such men are more capable of violence than men who have 1 or a small number of sexual partners?  I find people who judge people on how many sexual partners they've had or haven't had really weird.  I would only condemn someone if it was illegal eg non-consensual, underage, child porn.