Gonçalo Amaral should never have been taken off the case!

[pathfinder73]

I have produced a detailed break down of what was and was not open in Luz from around 8:30PM to 10:30PM.  Luz was NOT deserted.  The promenade was NOT deserted.

That is the whole point.  People who think Luz was closed around the time of the incident are tackling the wrong problem.

What has a stranger getting to the cliffs got to do with anything?  Said stranger has to get past numerous open establishments to get to the cliffs.  That's what a man walking through Luz had to achieve, not finding where the beach or the cliffs were.

The obstacle was people of the classes 'staff' and 'customers'.  I cannot track domestic people that night, so I can't know how much traffic there was.  However, the files are replete with instances of people moving about BEFORE they learned of the disappearance of Madeleine.

For example, the proprietor and owner of the Dolphin went to the Mirage for a game of pool that night, turning up to find it was basically empty, with everyone out searching.  Clearly, this does not impact on events leading up to the disappearance.  But it does show that people were travelling across Luz, not remaining behind closed doors.

Amaral claimed in his book that Luz was basically closed on 3 May 2007.  That is nonsense, total nonsense.

The idea of a man walking through a deserted, closed town is fantasy.  Whichever way Smithman went, he was about to enter Luz hotspots.

In order to evade them, he first had to know about them, then he had to have a good quality knowledge of Luz to take a path avoiding them.  Stranger does not equate with knowledge of Luz, it equates with ignorance of Luz.

Amaral was ignorant of the workings of Luz.  That was not a fault, it was a consequence of being a stranger to Luz.

Amaral was out of his depth in this case, IMO.  I cannot attach blame to him for this.  If Rebelo had been in charge from day 1, he would have been out of his depth, IMO.  If DCI Andy Redwood had been in charge from day 1, he would have been out of his depth, IMO.  If DCI Nicola Wall had been in charge from day 1, she would have been out of her depth, IMO.

Whatever captain was in charge, the storm surrounding the disappearance would have sunk the ship, IMO.

So, should Amaral have been moved?  Probably yes.  It was time to get fresh eyes looking at things, and get someone in who was not in the media firing line.

You have produced nothing of value. It is possible to hide bodies and later move them. It has happened many times. You can get to the cliffs. He is not walking through the streets to get there. He is on the deserted beach. You're not going to find anything taking a stroll along the beach. Not many torches and Gary Lig said it would be impossible to search that area properly in those conditions. We know certain people went out hours later and were all alone apparently.

Gary Lig at the beach

[Carana]

Is it believed Sr Amaral was removed due to political intervention? if so where is the hard evidence?
Or was he removed as a result of a management decision by his superiors? Which to me seems more likely.
Were I his manager I would have removed him of my own accord probably before September.

He was eventually removed by the national director.

He was an arguido on 4 May in another case and charged sometime in June. Despite this pending case, he had been made PJ coordinator for Portimão in 2006 (to double-check on the date).

IMO, Encarnação should have found a diplomatic way of whisking him off to investigate a "very important case" on something totally unrelated and asked for a temporary coordinator from Lisbon.

That didn't happen. Encarnação became seriously ill and, understandably, had other concerns.

[ShiningInLuz]

You have produced nothing of value. It is possible to hide bodies and later move them. It has happened many times. You can get to the cliffs. He is not walking through the streets to get there. He is on the deserted beach. You're not going to find anything taking a stroll along the beach. Not many torches and Gary Lig said it would be impossible to search that area properly in those conditions. We know certain people went out hours later and were all alone apparently.

Gary Lig at the beach

I have no intention of discussing Gary Lig's view of the case further, given he has clearly demonstrated his total ignorance of critical facts.

How on Earth can you say you can get to the beach without walking through the streets?  What?  You cannot be serious.

Does Smithman now magically have a car?  Does he levitate to the beach?

Smithman had until perhaps 10:20PM or so to get to the beach before numerous people are crystal clear that the beach was a place they searched.

There were NUMEROUS places open on the beach front until later than that.  A Concha, Paraíso, Habana, Lazuli, Carlos Bar, O Poço, the nightclub.

And if you are factoring in the later time that the McCanns reputedly searched, try checking the Habana webcam.  The set-up crew normally are active before dawn.  The beach cleaners are out first thing.  People let their dogs roam free on the beach while they socialise with other dog walkers.  It happens to be an extremely attractive and tranquil place to be at dawn.

I know because I've done it.  How about you?  How about Gary Lig?  Just another guy who does not know how Luz runs, on top of seemingly being ignorant of the facts of the case.

Is it possible we could stick a bit closer to the topic rather than throwing in unrelated quotes from a Dispatched programme that did not have access to the facts?  I feel sure the mods would appreciate this.

[Alice Purjorick]

He was eventually removed by the national director.

He was an arguido on 4 May in another case and charged sometime in June. Despite this pending case, he had been made PJ coordinator for Portimão in 2006 (to double-check on the date).

IMO, Encarnação should have found a diplomatic way of whisking him off to investigate a "very important case" on something totally unrelated and asked for a temporary coordinator from Lisbon.

That didn't happen. Encarnação became seriously ill and, understandably, had other concerns.

So do you think it was political intervention rather than a management decision?
Regardless of who did what with which and to whom and who was called what I find a management decision is more credible than political intervention for the reasons I have stated. Albeit given I had the resources to cover the case and not leave my organisation exposed I would have whanged him a lot earlier by giving him a sideways promotion.
Having the senior officer of a missing child case with international interest staring down the barrel of a falsifying case documents charge is not very smart, someone will dig it up sooner or later. Best get shut of him.

[Carana]

So do you think it was political intervention rather than a management decision?
Regardless of who did what with which and to whom and who was called what I find a management decision is more credible than political intervention for the reasons I have stated. Albeit given I had the resources to cover the case and not leave my organisation exposed I would have whanged him a lot earlier by giving him a sideways promotion.
Having the senior officer of a missing child case with international interest staring down the barrel of a falsifying case documents charge is not very smart, someone will dig it up sooner or later. Best get shut of him.

What is the distinction?

[Alice Purjorick]

What is the distinction?

Do you mean the distinction between management decision and political intervention?
A management decision is an action taken within an organisation in the interests of satisfying that organisations objective; in this case determining a crime, obtaining a successful prosecution and not leaving the organisation exposed.
Political intervention is someone in government interfering in the running of an organisation by dictating how a job is staffed and funded.

[Carana]

Do you mean the distinction between management decision and political intervention?
A management decision is an action taken within an organisation in the interests of satisfying that organisations objective; in this case determining a crime, obtaining a successful prosecution and not leaving the organisation exposed.
Political intervention is someone in government interfering in the running of an organisation by dictating how a job is staffed and funded.

According to that, what political intervention was there in the police investigation into the McCann case as opposed to a mangerial one?

[Carana]

My impression is that the lack of mangement, IMO, became a political (diplomatic) issue in terms of international relations... which goes far beyond the McCann case itself.

[pathfinder73]

I have no intention of discussing Gary Lig's view of the case further, given he has clearly demonstrated his total ignorance of critical facts.

How on Earth can you say you can get to the beach without walking through the streets?  What?  You cannot be serious.

Does Smithman now magically have a car?  Does he levitate to the beach?

Smithman had until perhaps 10:20PM or so to get to the beach before numerous people are crystal clear that the beach was a place they searched.

There were NUMEROUS places open on the beach front until later than that.  A Concha, Paraíso, Habana, Lazuli, Carlos Bar, O Poço, the nightclub.

And if you are factoring in the later time that the McCanns reputedly searched, try checking the Habana webcam.  The set-up crew normally are active before dawn.  The beach cleaners are out first thing.  People let their dogs roam free on the beach while they socialise with other dog walkers.  It happens to be an extremely attractive and tranquil place to be at dawn.

I know because I've done it.  How about you?  How about Gary Lig?  Just another guy who does not know how Luz runs, on top of seemingly being ignorant of the facts of the case.

Is it possible we could stick a bit closer to the topic rather than throwing in unrelated quotes from a Dispatched programme that did not have access to the facts?  I feel sure the mods would appreciate this.

Smithman could be on that beach by 10:05 (he was nearly there when seen). It's pure arrogance to suggest a search specialist knows nothing. I meant once on the beach you can walk along it in the dark to get to the cliffs. You don't need to be walking through lit streets to access it (a foolish thought!).

[Alfred R Jones]

If Amaral had never been taken off the case, where do forum members believe we would be at now?  McCanns languishing in prison presumably!

[ShiningInLuz]

Smithman could be on that beach by 10:05 (he was nearly there when seen). It's pure arrogance to suggest a search specialist knows nothing. I meant once on the beach you can walk along it in the dark to get to the cliffs. You don't need to be walking through lit streets to access it (a foolish thought!).

At no time have I asserted that this 'search specialist' knows nothing, so please drop the assertion and the label of arrogance.  I cannot assert his professional capacity as I know nothing about it, apart from what has appeared in a single TV programme. 

I do not research every ex-whatever who manages to get into the media.  I do some checks on whether what the talking head passes basic tests.

Barclay was in the programme.  Whether it was this programme or another, he is the source of the "undisturbed lichen" myth.  I do not need his CV to tell that he was wrong about this.

Likewise, I do not need the CV of DCI Andy Redwood to know that if he had understood Luz, the June 2014 dig on the mound would never have started.

I asserted the 'search expert' did not know of the PJ checks on bins, and clearly he didn't.  I asserted he did not have a good grasp of Luz, and I stand by that assertion.

Now you are stating that you can access the beach without first getting to the beach.  Getting to the beach is impossible without going through the streets of Luz.  And Luz was open for business.  Your expert seems not to be aware of this.

You are, given that this has been put to you on many an occasion.  So what relevance is an expert who either did not know this, or who knew it and came up with rubbish?

[Carana]

If Amaral had never been taken off the case, where do forum members believe we would be at now?  McCanns languishing in prison presumably!

Without the international media spotlights, and in view of the lack of evidence in the Cipriano case, that would seem to be a reasonable assumption. IMO.

[Alice Purjorick]

According to that, what political intervention was there in the police investigation into the McCann case as opposed to a mangerial one?

We seem to going round in circles here.
I didn't say there was political intervention. Some including Sr Amaral suggest there was.
My postulation is that it is much more likely that there was an internal decision within the PJ [ie a management decision] to whang him as he would be a liability if prosecutions came about. One can imagine the judge /judges asking how many case documents he had falsified should the case ever have finished up in court.

[Carana]

We seem to going round in circles here.
I didn't say there was political intervention. Some including Sr Amaral suggest there was.
My postulation is that it is much more likely that there was an internal decision within the PJ [ie a management decision] to whang him as he would be a liability if prosecutions came about. One can imagine the judge /judges asking how many case documents he had falsified should the case ever have finished up in court.

I think that we mostly agree on that, but IMO, there is more.

In the Cipriano case, he testified that the fact that Leonor wore a black top (in one TV interview, not in others) signified mourning and was therefore a major hint as to guilt - and no one challenged the fact that she was also wearing bright-coloured slacks.

The level of the prosecution in that case would have made PT an international laughing stock.

[Carana]

We seem to going round in circles here.
I didn't say there was political intervention. Some including Sr Amaral suggest there was.
My postulation is that it is much more likely that there was an internal decision within the PJ [ie a management decision] to whang him as he would be a liability if prosecutions came about. One can imagine the judge /judges asking how many case documents he had falsified should the case ever have finished up in court.

I certainly agree that he was a liability....