HOLMES 2 and the search for Madeleine McCann.

[Alfred R Jones]

As they referred to 'the timeline' being examined and not what you said that's just your belief, not something you know.

LOL.  So perhaps he meant they forensically examined the piece of paper upon which the timeline was written, rather than the information that fed into it.  Yes, I'm sure that's it! 

[Alfred R Jones]

I don't need to know what 'intelligence' prompted them to dig there.

I know one heck of a lot more about Luz, and why that dig was senseless, than you or OG do.

I don't assume I know it all.  There are certain bits that I definitely know better than OG or HOLMES.

Do you know what prompted them to dig in the areas they did, and if so how?  Did they share that information with you?  Or are you ASSuming?

[Carana]

I don't need to know what 'intelligence' prompted them to dig there.

I know one heck of a lot more about Luz, and why that dig was senseless, than you or OG do.

I don't assume I know it all.  There are certain bits that I definitely know better than OG or HOLMES.

What exactly do you know better than OG or HOLMES? And how do you know that you know so?

Confused.com

[Mr Gray]

I don't need to know what 'intelligence' prompted them to dig there.

I know one heck of a lot more about Luz, and why that dig was senseless, than you or OG do.

I don't assume I know it all.  There are certain bits that I definitely know better than OG or HOLMES.

you have absolutely no idea why SY dug in that area...non whatsoever.

[G-Unit]

LOL.  So perhaps he meant they forensically examined the piece of paper upon which the timeline was written, rather than the information that fed into it.  Yes, I'm sure that's it! 

Well, they have been called 'plod' before, so who knows?

[Alfred R Jones]

Well, they have been called 'plod' before, so who knows?

You obviously hold Operation Grange in great esteem.  If you think my description of what they meant by "forensic examination" is far of the mark, perhaps you could give us your view, seeing has how you seem to believe you are far more knowledgeable and logical than me.

[ShiningInLuz]

What exactly do you know better than OG or HOLMES? And how do you know that you know so?

Confused.com

The mound happens to be on 2 roads that look like nothing roads, but in reality are an integral part of the Luz 1-way system.  They are both important roads.

The mound happens to be next to 2 restaurants and a take-away.  I can't prove the 2 restaurants were open for business at that time, so I will not claim them.  The take-away was.

The NE road is one of the key routes to get into the Chinese restaurant in Crimewatch 2013.  And to the Bull, Kelly's, Fernando's, the Dolphin, the 4 restaurants south east of the church, the Fortaleza, the convenience store, and much, much more.

Statement by one of the searchers.  She went up a hill the night Madeleine disappeared.  She does not know where.  On the top of the hill there was a van parked with a man inside.  He said he had not seen a little girl.

Plug in local knowledge.  There are two sites within Luz itself where folks 'camp' overnight, for free.  One is totally flat, beside the sea, and cannot possibly be described as a hill.  The other is the top of the mound.

By the way, the man has been investigated and cleared.  That is a dead end.

Sanity check #1.  Should the searcher have known about this hill?  No, she should have been unaware of it.  She should have been unaware it was used for people sleeping overnight in Luz.  Her knowledge at that time appears to be restricted primarily to the east half of Luz.

Sanity check #2.  Would OG have been aware of it?  This area was not mentioned in Crimewatch 2013.  Did someone volunteer this local knowledge?  That someone would have had to have both a detailed understanding of the files AND a very good knowledge of Luz.  At the time of the dig, I had a very good knowledge of Luz.  I had basically no knowledge of the files.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have made sure OG was informed very early in the dig, for them to do as they saw fit.

Sanity check #3.  The near impossibility of digging a grave in central Luz by hand.  I mean by that OG using what looked like very expensive pickaxes and shovels, as opposed to mechanised effort.  By May, the rainy season has long passed and the ground is pretty close to concrete.  Digging even a shallow grave is ultra hard work.  It would take a long time.  It would be extremely noisy.  All in the heart of Luz.  OG obviously thought this was a possibility.  The evidence is that OG did not have a clue on this one.

Neither did HOLMES.

Why do I think I know better?  Because something that makes zero sense took place.

[Mr Gray]

The mound happens to be on 2 roads that look like nothing roads, but in reality are an integral part of the Luz 1-way system.  They are both important roads.

The mound happens to be next to 2 restaurants and a take-away.  I can't prove the 2 restaurants were open for business at that time, so I will not claim them.  The take-away was.

The NE road is one of the key routes to get into the Chinese restaurant in Crimewatch 2013.  And to the Bull, Kelly's, Fernando's, the Dolphin, the 4 restaurants south east of the church, the Fortaleza, the convenience store, and much, much more.

Statement by one of the searchers.  She went up a hill the night Madeleine disappeared.  She does not know where.  On the top of the hill there was a van parked with a man inside.  He said he had not seen a little girl.

Plug in local knowledge.  There are two sites within Luz itself where folks 'camp' overnight, for free.  One is totally flat, beside the sea, and cannot possibly be described as a hill.  The other is the top of the mound.

By the way, the man has been investigated and cleared.  That is a dead end.

Sanity check #1.  Should the searcher have known about this hill?  No, she should have been unaware of it.  She should have been unaware it was used for people sleeping overnight in Luz.  Her knowledge at that time appears to be restricted primarily to the east half of Luz.

Sanity check #2.  Would OG have been aware of it?  This area was not mentioned in Crimewatch 2013.  Did someone volunteer this local knowledge?  That someone would have had to have both a detailed understanding of the files AND a very good knowledge of Luz.  At the time of the dig, I had a very good knowledge of Luz.  I had basically no knowledge of the files.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have made sure OG was informed very early in the dig, for them to do as they saw fit.

Sanity check #3.  The near impossibility of digging a grave in central Luz by hand.  I mean by that OG using what looked like very expensive pickaxes and shovels, as opposed to mechanised effort.  By May, the rainy season has long passed and the ground is pretty close to concrete.  Digging even a shallow grave is ultra hard work.  It would take a long time.  It would be extremely noisy.  All in the heart of Luz.  OG obviously thought this was a possibility.  The evidence is that OG did not have a clue on this one.

Neither did HOLMES.

Why do I think I know better?  Because something that makes zero sense took place.

so you think you know better...enough said...no wonder team mccann gave you short shrift

[Alfred R Jones]

The mound happens to be on 2 roads that look like nothing roads, but in reality are an integral part of the Luz 1-way system.  They are both important roads.

The mound happens to be next to 2 restaurants and a take-away.  I can't prove the 2 restaurants were open for business at that time, so I will not claim them.  The take-away was.

The NE road is one of the key routes to get into the Chinese restaurant in Crimewatch 2013.  And to the Bull, Kelly's, Fernando's, the Dolphin, the 4 restaurants south east of the church, the Fortaleza, the convenience store, and much, much more.

Statement by one of the searchers.  She went up a hill the night Madeleine disappeared.  She does not know where.  On the top of the hill there was a van parked with a man inside.  He said he had not seen a little girl.

Plug in local knowledge.  There are two sites within Luz itself where folks 'camp' overnight, for free.  One is totally flat, beside the sea, and cannot possibly be described as a hill.  The other is the top of the mound.

By the way, the man has been investigated and cleared.  That is a dead end.

Sanity check #1.  Should the searcher have known about this hill?  No, she should have been unaware of it.  She should have been unaware it was used for people sleeping overnight in Luz.  Her knowledge at that time appears to be restricted primarily to the east half of Luz.

Sanity check #2.  Would OG have been aware of it?  This area was not mentioned in Crimewatch 2013.  Did someone volunteer this local knowledge?  That someone would have had to have both a detailed understanding of the files AND a very good knowledge of Luz.  At the time of the dig, I had a very good knowledge of Luz.  I had basically no knowledge of the files.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have made sure OG was informed very early in the dig, for them to do as they saw fit.

Sanity check #3.  The near impossibility of digging a grave in central Luz by hand.  I mean by that OG using what looked like very expensive pickaxes and shovels, as opposed to mechanised effort.  By May, the rainy season has long passed and the ground is pretty close to concrete.  Digging even a shallow grave is ultra hard work.  It would take a long time.  It would be extremely noisy.  All in the heart of Luz.  OG obviously thought this was a possibility.  The evidence is that OG did not have a clue on this one.

Neither did HOLMES.

Why do I think I know better?  Because something that makes zero sense took place.

So which part of this search as described by the Guardian do you find completely untenable?

One of the sites is a concealed shaft in the ground discovered by detectives beneath a sheet of corrugated iron. Forensic officers wearing protective clothing and face masks examined the site for several hours on Wednesday, erecting a white tent to shield their work from the media.



Portuguese newspapers reported on Thursday that this site was a disused storage box where children used to play. The shaft, measuring around 150cm x 90cm (5ft x 3ft), was covered by mounds of earth and a corrugated iron sheet, which is thought to have concealed the hole for years.

Another key area of interest for detectives was the grave-like hole, where officers used ground-penetrating radar before erecting a white tent and carrying out digging work.

Under the headline "False grave deceives geo-radar", the newspaper Correia da Manhã reported that a site "with characteristics similar to a grave" was discovered but officers later concluded that it was "not compatible with that of a body".

---------------------

Police need to move earth covering a corrugated iron sheet and use shovels to do so - problem?
Police discover the presence of what appears to be a grave-like hole using ground penetrating radar - are they just supposed to ignore it?  Should they not have bothered to use such radar at all on the basis that digging a hole in central PdL would be hard work and noisy?

[ShiningInLuz]

you have absolutely no idea why SY dug in that area...non whatsoever.

Oh dear, where do I start with this?

I have already stated that I do not know what idea sparked OG to dig in an area that makes no sense.  So why do you keep banging on about it?

I note that your debating style has been called into question today.  IMO, your debating style is lacking.  You have added nothing of substance whatsoever with this post.

[Mr Gray]

Oh dear, where do I start with this?

I have already stated that I do not know what idea sparked OG to dig in an area that makes no sense.  So why do you keep banging on about it?

I note that your debating style has been called into question today.  IMO, your debating style is lacking.  You have added nothing of substance whatsoever with this post.

so you admit you do not know why SY dug there...my debating style was called into question by someone I had proved wrong...looks like you need to join the club

[ShiningInLuz]

so you think you know better...enough said...no wonder team mccann gave you short shrift

Another retort that adds absolutely nothing to the debate.

[Mr Gray]

Another retort that adds absolutely nothing to the debate.

it adds to the debate...you criticise SY for digging in a certain area....but you do not have all the information they do

[Alice Purjorick]

Another retort that adds absolutely nothing to the debate.

His major ology is in doing that.

[Mr Gray]

Another retort that adds absolutely nothing to the debate.

Another retort that adds absolutely nothing to the debate.