Wandering Off Topic

[Vertigo Swirl]

If Kate told the officers then why did no one mention it, not even her friends ? Ignoring the pleas of a mother who believes her children are in anger is a pretty big deal so why does no one mentions it the next day...not the parents, not the friends, not the family who were called, not the translator, not the police, not the Mark Warner staff...in fact not one single solitary soul ? What makes you believe Kate ?

Further do we know that Amaral was told that night or sometime in the following days ?

All the people you mention could very easily (in a court of law for example) have stood up and denounced Kate as a liar if she had never mentioned to any of them her concerns.  And what would be the benefits of lying about it in the first place, would they be so great as to be worth the risk of being shown up as a liar?  Just how much begging and pleading about the twins did Kate say she did that evening by the way?

[Vertigo Swirl]

Even if the police were the most incompetent people on the face of God’s earth it still does not excuse, or explain, a group of doctors, two of them anaesthetists, leaving two small children in an unresponsive state without taking any action.

Well then in your opinion they are all guilty of gross negligence and dereliction of duty.  Why not campaign to have them investigated by the General Medical Council to get them struck off?  That would make a change from constantly whingeing about it to no avail on a internet forums at least once a year, every year for many years.

[Lace]

If Kate told the officers then why did no one mention it, not even her friends ? Ignoring the pleas of a mother who believes her children are in anger is a pretty big deal so why does no one mentions it the next day...not the parents, not the friends, not the family who were called, not the translator, not the police, not the Mark Warner staff...in fact not one single solitary soul ? What makes you believe Kate ?

Further do we know that Amaral was told that night or sometime in the following days ?

The twins were fine the next day.   I don't know if the friends were in 5a were there when Kate mentioned it to the Police.  So why would they mention it?


I don't think Kate was listened to,  they thought Madeleine had wandered out.   It was a while later that the Police made their statements.   I have no doubt that Kate mentioned it to the Police that it was reported to Amaral who just dismissed it thinking Madeleine had wandered out.   Then when it came to his theory decided ah yes we were concerned about the twins from the beginning,  it fitted with his Calpol theory.   IMO

[Mr Gray]

Cites have been provided before and dismissed as you believe Kate McCann's actions were adequate because she was a doctor. I can assure you, however, that her actions would have been inadequate in any A & E Department had she been asked to attend a child with possible sedation.

I haven't seen any cites.... Your assurances are meaningless as you have no experience in sedation.... Sedation is not a medical emergency..
So no cite... As someone with experience in sedation I don't find Kate's actions inadequate

[faithlilly]

The twins were fine the next day.   I don't know if the friends were in 5a were there when Kate mentioned it to the Police.  So why would they mention it?


I don't think Kate was listened to,  they thought Madeleine had wandered out.   It was a while later that the Police made their statements.   I have no doubt that Kate mentioned it to the Police that it was reported to Amaral who just dismissed it thinking Madeleine had wandered out.   Then when it came to his theory decided ah yes we were concerned about the twins from the beginning,  it fitted with his Calpol theory.   IMO

An awful lot of assumptions there, so let’s look at what we know.

Kate said she was so concerned at the twins unresponsive state that she informed the police. We can also ascertain that as a trained anaesthesist she would know the difference between a child merely in a deep sleep and one who was unnaturally unresponsive. She appears to have believed the later.

That the twins were okay the next day is a nonsense argument. It’s a bit like saying because that the child, after drinking bleach, survived the night and therefore her parents decision not to take her to the hospital was the right one. Can you not see how ridiculous that argument is ?

We know that Fiona was with Kate most of the night and witnessed Kate’s ‘looking for signs of life’. She mentioned this in her statement so why not Kate’s appeals for help ? If Kate was that concerned for the twins that she was actually checking that they were alive but her concerns were being ignored why didn’t she mention it to any of the family she called that night ? Further SB and the officers present recounted Kate’s request for a priest but not medical help for her unresponsive twins. Why do you think that is ?

Amaral has nothing to do with Kate’s actions that night.

[misty]

Even if the police were the most incompetent people on the face of God’s earth it still does not excuse, or explain, a group of doctors, two of them anaesthetists, leaving two small children in an unresponsive state without taking any action.

Were the twins floppy, indicating damage to central nervous system? Were they convulsing, agitated, vomiting or suffering diarrhoea? Was their breathing depressed? Were they tachycardic? Was their skin tone different or their body temperature noticeably altered?
If Kate had had the twins rushed off to A&E, all sirens blazing & nothing was subsequently found to be wrong with them, wouldn't you be accusing her of being a drama queen & faking concern in order to distance herself from the police & her missing eldest daughter? Would it be proof she cared more about the twins than Madeleine?

[Vertigo Swirl]

An awful lot of assumptions there, so let’s look at what we know.

Kate said she was so concerned at the twins unresponsive state that she informed the police. We can also ascertain that as a trained anaesthesist she would know the difference between a child merely in a deep sleep and one who was unnaturally unresponsive. She appears to have believed the later.

That the twins were okay the next day is a nonsense argument. It’s a bit like saying because that the child, after drinking bleach, survived the night and therefore her parents decision not to take her to the hospital was the right one. Can you not see how ridiculous that argument is ?

We know that Fiona was with Kate most of the night and witnessed Kate’s ‘looking for signs of life’. She mentioned this in her statement so why not Kate’s appeals for help ? If Kate was that concerned for the twins that she was actually checking that they were alive but her concerns were being ignored why didn’t she mention it to any of the family she called that night ? Further SB and the officers present recounted Kate’s request for a priest but not medical help for her unresponsive twins. Why do you think that is ?

Amaral has nothing to do with Kate’s actions that night.

So either Kate McCann was grossly negligent, the twins were in danger of succumbing to an overdose of sedatives but she didn't care enough to prevent this happening, or she was lying, she wasn't really concerned for their safety at all and made it all up?  Which is it? 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Were the twins floppy, indicating damage to central nervous system? Were they convulsing, agitated, vomiting or suffering diarrhoea? Was their breathing depressed? Were they tachycardic? Was their skin tone different or their body temperature noticeably altered?
If Kate had had the twins rushed off to A&E, all sirens blazing & nothing was subsequently found to be wrong with them, wouldn't you be accusing her of being a drama queen & faking concern in order to distance herself from the police & her missing eldest daughter? Would it be proof she cared more about the twins than Madeleine?

Pre-CISE-ly!

[faithlilly]

Were the twins floppy, indicating damage to central nervous system? Were they convulsing, agitated, vomiting or suffering diarrhoea? Was their breathing depressed? Were they tachycardic? Was their skin tone different or their body temperature noticeably altered?
If Kate had had the twins rushed off to A&E, all sirens blazing & nothing was subsequently found to be wrong with them, wouldn't you be accusing her of being a drama queen & faking concern in order to distance herself from the police & her missing eldest daughter? Would it be proof she cared more about the twins than Madeleine?

Not sure the point you’re trying to make. Are you saying that Kate didn’t have her unresponsive children treated because the public would think she was a drama queen ? If not then your point has no relevance Wouldit be proof that Kate cared more for the twins than Madeleine? Of course not. What a ridiculous conclusion. What it would show is that her alleged concerns tallied with the actions she undertook.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Not sure the point you’re trying to make. Are you saying that Kate didn’t have her unresponsive children treated because the public would think she was a drama queen ? If not then your point has no relevance Wouldit be proof that Kate cared more for the twins than Madeleine? Of course not. What a ridiculous conclusion. What it would show is that her alleged concerns tallied with the actions she undertook.

You know full well that whatever course of action Kate had taken she would have been slagged off for it, please don’t pretend otherwise.

[G-Unit]

Were the twins floppy, indicating damage to central nervous system? Were they convulsing, agitated, vomiting or suffering diarrhoea? Was their breathing depressed? Were they tachycardic? Was their skin tone different or their body temperature noticeably altered?
If Kate had had the twins rushed off to A&E, all sirens blazing & nothing was subsequently found to be wrong with them, wouldn't you be accusing her of being a drama queen & faking concern in order to distance herself from the police & her missing eldest daughter? Would it be proof she cared more about the twins than Madeleine?

There's a mismatch between what Kate McCann says and what she did. She says it seemed unnatural that the twins should sleep through the noise and lights. She says the thought came to her that all three children may have been sedated. She says she became scared for the twins.

So what did she do? She 'wandered' into their room several rimes before the GNR arrived to check on them. She placed her hands on their backs to check for signs of life.

She didn't stay with them or ask for a second opinion. She didn't check any of the things you mention.

When the GNR arrived the twins were in a dark room with the door closed. There they remained while their mother sat on the bed in her room.

I don't think she thought the twins were in any danger at all judging by her actions.

[Vertigo Swirl]

There's a mismatch between what Kate McCann says and what she did. She says it seemed unnatural that the twins should sleep through the noise and lights. She says the thought came to her that all three children may have been sedated. She says she became scared for the twins.

So what did she do? She 'wandered' into their room several rimes before the GNR arrived to check on them. She placed her hands on their backs to check for signs of life.

She didn't stay with them or ask for a second opinion. She didn't check any of the things you mention.

When the GNR arrived the twins were in a dark room with the door closed. There they remained while their mother sat on the bed in her room.

I don't think she thought the twins were in any danger at all judging by her actions.

Therefore we can conclude that the twins were not sedated by their parents and Kate is a bare faced liar who went out of her way to write up a big fat whopper that everyone who was there that night would know was a complete fabrication, and she did this because...because....because...oh what does it matter...just because!

[faithlilly]

From Madeleine by Kate McCann.

‘We’d never lied about anything – not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else. But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn’t seem to have a choice. As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip. We didn’t feel good about this at all, but even if the judicial secrecy law had not prevented us from giving the main reason, can you imagine what would have happened if we’d announced to the journalists heading for Huelva that the police were coming to do some forensic work in our villa? We were not to know our excuse would prove to be no more than a temporary holding measure. If we had, we wouldn’t have bothered trying to keep the scurrilous headlines at bay.’

As Kate says herself, she lies when she doesn’t have a choice.

Can you imagine what would happened if it had been discovered that Kate thought the twins lives were in danger but did nothing ?

[Vertigo Swirl]

From Madeleine by Kate McCann.

‘We’d never lied about anything – not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else. But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn’t seem to have a choice. As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip. We didn’t feel good about this at all, but even if the judicial secrecy law had not prevented us from giving the main reason, can you imagine what would have happened if we’d announced to the journalists heading for Huelva that the police were coming to do some forensic work in our villa? We were not to know our excuse would prove to be no more than a temporary holding measure. If we had, we wouldn’t have bothered trying to keep the scurrilous headlines at bay.’

As Kate says herself, she lies when she doesn’t have a choice.

She had absolutely no motive to lie about telling the cops she thought her kids seemed unresponsive.  She could easily have chosen not to mention it at all.  Your logic has a great big gaping hole in it (as usual).

[jassi]

She had absolutely no motive to lie about telling the cops she thought her kids seemed unresponsive.  She could easily have chosen not to mention it at all.  Your logic has a great big gaping hole in it (as usual).

Debatable. Could be just an effort to discredit Portuguese authorities.