Wandering Off Topic

[Holly Goodhead]

Are you suggesting the Met is not fit for purpose?  Perhaps you and Holly could volunteer to replace Cressida Dick on a job share basis and whip them into shape.

One of your more sensible posts 

[Vertigo Swirl]

One of your more sensible posts 

But sadly not one of yours.

[G-Unit]

Are you suggesting the Met is not fit for purpose?  Perhaps you and Holly could volunteer to replace Cressida Dick on a job share basis and whip them into shape.

I think I said that was the question. I didn't speculate about the answer.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I think I said that was the question. I didn't speculate about the answer.

Do you accept that some crimes are simply unsolvable no matter how many resources and cash you throw at them or do you think every case should be solved once £x has been spent?

[G-Unit]

Do you accept that some crimes are simply unsolvable no matter how many resources and cash you throw at them or do you think every case should be solved once £x has been spent?

I do, and I think the McCann case is one of them.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I do, and I think the McCann case is one of them.

Then it’s not always a question of police investigative competency.

[G-Unit]

Then it’s not always a question of police investigative competency.

Well, according to some it was incompetence which caused the first investigation to fail. I think there were a variety of reasons.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Well, according to some it was incompetence which caused the first investigation to fail. I think there were a variety of reasons.

They hardly put their backs into it did they?  How long before they gave up searching for Madeleine?  A week wasn’t it?  And case shelved within a year.

[Mr Gray]

Well, according to some it was incompetence which caused the first investigation to fail. I think there were a variety of reasons.

You cannot argue that amaral misunderstood the value of the alerts and the dna.  Amaral is on record using the alerts to prove Maddie died in 5a... that is total rubbish


Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida said he believed the British child had died in her family's apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on the day she went missing. He told the court the main evidence for this was the findings of British police sniffer dogs sent to Portugal to examine the flat. The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, challenged this claim, arguing that the results from sniffer dogs did not constitute proof and were not allowed as evidence in the case.

[Holly Goodhead]

Do you accept that some crimes are simply unsolvable no matter how many resources and cash you throw at them or do you think every case should be solved once £x has been spent?

I struggle to see why this case hasn't been solved providing all the data was captured by way of telephones (landline and mobile), electronic card payments, accommodation bookings, hire cars, flights, passport, cctv, sat images etc.

Criminal cases are hampered by the fact those involved in investigating and more come from a very homogenous group of people.  All the research shows problem solving produces better outcomes when the players are from a heterogeneous group.

[Mr Gray]

I struggle to see why this case hasn't been solved providing all the data was captured by way of telephones (landline and mobile), electronic card payments, accommodation bookings, hire cars, flights, passport, cctv, sat images etc.

Criminal cases are hampered by the fact those involved in investigating and more come from a very homogenous group of people.  All the research shows problem solving produces better outcomes when the players are from a heterogeneous group.

i think you need to understand thats your opinion...and pretty well codswallop ...imo

[Vertigo Swirl]

I struggle to see why this case hasn't been solved providing all the data was captured by way of telephones (landline and mobile), electronic card payments, accommodation bookings, hire cars, flights, passport, cctv, sat images etc.

Criminal cases are hampered by the fact those involved in investigating and more come from a very homogenous group of people.  All the research shows problem solving produces better outcomes when the players are from a heterogeneous group.

Criminal investigations are often hampered by poor reaction times by the police, by letting perpetrators get away in the "Golden Hour" (not an actual hour btw), by failing to conduct rigorous data gathering in the first hours and days of the crime being perpetrated, by not properly investigating information volunteered by witnesses, by dismissing things as "not relevant" without proper investigation, by failing to gather any and all cctv in the locale etc etc.  Who is to blame for all these failings? Not The Met and not the German police.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

You cannot argue that amaral misunderstood the value of the alerts and the dna.  Amaral is on record using the alerts to prove Maddie died in 5a... that is total rubbish


Chief Inspector Tavares de Almeida said he believed the British child had died in her family's apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on the day she went missing. He told the court the main evidence for this was the findings of British police sniffer dogs sent to Portugal to examine the flat. The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, challenged this claim, arguing that the results from sniffer dogs did not constitute proof and were not allowed as evidence in the case.

I wouldn't say total rubbish... maybe there was a translation issue... or maybe he acted too quickly without a full understanding - but the fact remains that the report on swab 3a states:

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid".... and later regarding one of the swabs from the car containing 15 (out of 19) DNA markers that MM has: .... "Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab? - It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample?"

So although he's over egging the pudding - any officer would at this stage be highly suspicious. Interestingly here's how a book by the author R. Cooley writes about the discussion between the two forces:

"The significance of the DNA is hotly debated to this day. There are very few true experts, so most of the opinions are swarf. However, a UK expert said something interesting in the presence of the Portuguese when the findings were being downplayed… "At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS [ the English forensic laboratory ] and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: “With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England.”"

[Mr Gray]

I wouldn't say total rubbish... maybe there was a translation issue... or maybe he acted too quickly without a full understanding - but the fact remains that the report on swab 3a states:

An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid".... and later regarding one of the swabs from the car containing 15 (out of 19) DNA markers that MM has: .... "Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab? - It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample?"

So although he's over egging the pudding - any officer would at this stage be highly suspicious. Interestingly here's how a book by the author R. Cooley writes about the discussion between the two forces:

"The significance of the DNA is hotly debated to this day. There are very few true experts, so most of the opinions are swarf. However, a UK expert said something interesting in the presence of the Portuguese when the findings were being downplayed… "At our insistence, Stuart contacts the FSS [ the English forensic laboratory ] and asks them if they think the Portuguese are idiots. We hear him saying: “With a lot less than that, we would have already arrested someone in England.”"

More codswallop imo.. As I understand  that statement comes from amarals book and he is a convicted liar

[Holly Goodhead]

Criminal investigations are often hampered by poor reaction times by the police, by letting perpetrators get away in the "Golden Hour" (not an actual hour btw), by failing to conduct rigorous data gathering in the first hours and days of the crime being perpetrated, by not properly investigating information volunteered by witnesses, by dismissing things as "not relevant" without proper investigation, by failing to gather any and all cctv in the locale etc etc.  Who is to blame for all these failings? Not The Met and not the German police.

But according to Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe by 2011 a vast amount of case related material had been accumulated:

https://youtu.be/n9vJm03dlI8

Where did all this material come from if not PJ?