Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 2268863 times)

0 Members and 26 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13725 on: August 05, 2022, 09:57:09 AM »

JAN MOIR: Spare a thought for the doctors who looked after Archie Battersbee so devotedly with so little thanks

By the time you read this, Archie Battersbee may have died. Or he may still be clinging on to life, locked in a world where only machines keep him alive.

He has been in a coma since April, when he was hospitalised after, his mother believes, attempting the 'blackout challenge', a dangerous TikTok trend that has killed at least two other children.

Doctors believe Archie is brain-stem dead and, having exhausted every medical avenue over the past four months, they argued it would be better for the 12-year-old if he were allowed to die.

They wanted to switch off his life-support machine and let him go in peace. However, his parents, Hollie Dance and Paul Battersbee, did not agree with this diagnosis — and a terrible battle ensued.

They took their fight to keep him alive to the United Nations, to the Supreme Court and finally to the European Court of Human Rights. The latter decreed that they would not interfere with previous court rulings, bringing the parents right back to square one.

Suffused with grief at her son's seemingly hopeless predicament, Miss Dance said some damning things about his NHS treatment.

'They haven't given Archie any care,' she complained this week.

One can understand her anguish while simultaneously appreciating that this is patently not true. Not just because Archie has been in an ICU for all this time at an approximate cost of £225,000 — not that the money matters.

It is more that medical teams at Barts and at the Royal Hospital in London have worked around the clock to keep Archie alive — but even the most dedicated ICU worker cannot perform miracles.

Hollie's words may be insulting and unfair, but she is swaddled in the blanket of compassion that the parent of every desperately ill child warrants, even if their ungratefulness sometimes grates. For emotions are running high and everyone understands that.

And we have been here before. Four years ago in Liverpool, a little boy called Alfie Evans had a neuro-degenerative disorder so rare it didn't even have a name.

He was treated at Alder Hey Children's Hospital for 15 months before doctors applied to have his life-support machine switched off. His parents convinced themselves the hospital was not fit for purpose and began a battle that went all the way to the Vatican.

The year before it was a baby called Charlie Gard. When doctors at Great Ormond Street Hospital first suggested that further medical intervention would not be in Charlie's best interests, and that he should be moved to palliative care, his father and mother disagreed. They argued in the courts that their critically ill child, not yet one-year-old, should be allowed to undergo experimental treatment in the U.S.

Again, this request was denied, and in both cases it was the opinion of the doctors, and not the wishes of the parents, that prevailed.

And rightly so, because doctors must do what is in the best interest of their patients, not the interests of the distraught parents.

These life-or-death situations with sick children are difficult enough to witness from the sidelines. One can only imagine the horror of being an involved parent; helpless in the face of what they see as intransigent medical opinion, desperate to delay the approaching hour of death.

Perhaps that is why, unable to accept the inevitable, parents embark on these doomed legal manoeuvres. The meetings, the court appearances; it all gives false illusion of a battle the parents can fight, maybe even win.

Mum and Dad are not sitting around shredding their fingernails; they are squaring up to the doctors, who conveniently provide them with an enemy in clear sight. An enemy that is easier to combat than the dreadful, unwinnable situation that is the reality of their position.

The media attention on their struggle must be gratifying, too, as the world watches and the sick child becomes a cause celebre.

'The atmosphere at the hospital is very tense,' said a television reporter outside the Royal London Hospital yesterday morning. I bet it was.

perhaps one day, though, the parents might come to understand that these caring professionals are friends, not foes — instead of using legal battles as a kind of coping strategy.

At some point this week, the Battersbee family seemed finally to accept that time was running out for Archie. Yet the fight was still not over.

At the time of writing, they were pursuing a last request to move Archie to a hospice where he could 'die in peace'.

Doctors were against this, arguing that the child's unstable condition meant that moving him would be too big a risk.

A spokeswoman for his family said it was 'absolutely disgusting' that the family were 'not even allowed to choose where Archie takes his last moments'.

The word 'inhumane' was also tossed around.

But is it really disgusting? Or is it just that frail Archie might not survive the journey and would possibly die in pain and chaos in a hospital corridor?

One can see why moving Archie to the relative peace of a hospice room might be easier for his family, but it won't necessarily be easier for him.

In the end, in all these tragic cases, the law inevitably decides that the wishes of the parents are trumped by the learned opinion of the doctors.

In Archie's case, they have decided that the kindest thing of all would be to let nature take its terrible course.

Unlike Archie's parents, I don't see this as cruel or inhumane — but the very highest form of pure compassion that the medical profession can offer.

The loss for the Battersbee family is a devastating one, and they have all my sympathy.

But spare a thought for the doctors and medics who have looked after Archie devotedly and been given so little thanks for their efforts. They deserve our support and prayers, too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11082377/JAN-MOIR-Spare-thought-doctors-looked-Archie-Battersbee-little-thanks.html
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13726 on: August 05, 2022, 10:33:16 AM »

Archie should be allowed to die!  What?   What has Archie got to do with this?  According to the doctors Archie is already dead, so he shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Meanwhile, his mother is distraught.  As I know I would be.  And so she cannot be held responsible for what she has said.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13727 on: August 05, 2022, 10:46:52 AM »
Meanwhile, here's a very sensitive and sensible article from the Daily Mail some years ago:

By Jan Moir
PUBLISHED: 01:39, 13 September 2013 | UPDATED: 01:39, 13 September 2013

The courage of Kate McCann

The agony never ends for Kate McCann. This week she must be bracing herself for more public scrutiny as she returns to a country that she must now hate, in a journey that revisits a very, very dark place in her own mind.

Mrs McCann is once more in Portugal, the scene of her three-year-old daughter Madeleine’s disappearance in 2007.

She is there for a £1 million libel case against former police chief Goncalo Amaral, once in charge of the Madeleine investigation. He published a book accusing the McCanns of covering up their daughter’s death — a case that he could not make in real life, so he made it in print instead.


These claims were the basis for much of the suspicion against the McCanns, forcing them to fight allegations that they had harmed their little girl.

The bad smell from the allegations, published in a book that is still available in Portugal, lingers.

Why does Kate bother? What good can it do? Why rake over the pain? Perhaps the old saying holds true: innocence is important to the innocent. The McCanns feel it poisoned the hunt for Madeleine, that the smokescreen allowed the real culprit to go free. While Kate and her husband Gerry try to get on with family life, they clearly feel they cannot let these damaging allegations stand.

What a never-ending nightmare. You’ve got to admire her stoicism. Many mothers would have been broken by this terrible ordeal.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13728 on: August 05, 2022, 11:05:26 AM »
Archie should be allowed to die!  What?   What has Archie got to do with this?  According to the doctors Archie is already dead, so he shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Meanwhile, his mother is distraught.  As I know I would be.  And so she cannot be held responsible for what she has said.

Well, legally she can't, but in my world she's still responsible for her own actions. Grief doesn't permit free rein to be calling NHS staff executioners, they're working round the clock keeping him kind of alive when it's slowly killing him.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13729 on: August 05, 2022, 11:35:16 AM »
Archie should be allowed to die!  What?   What has Archie got to do with this?  According to the doctors Archie is already dead, so he shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Meanwhile, his mother is distraught.  As I know I would be.  And so she cannot be held responsible for what she has said.

NHS staff, I'm sure, are used to excusing distraught mothers for saying things they shouldn't say. Should these mothers be excused for making unsupported vile allegations against NHS staff in the media and the courts? I think that's a step too far imo.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13730 on: August 05, 2022, 11:37:48 AM »
NHS staff, I'm sure, are used to excusing distraught mothers for saying things they shouldn't say. Should these mothers be excused for making unsupported vile allegations against NHS staff in the media and the courts? I think that's a step too far imo.
What do you think should happen to them then?  Is getting abused online by judgemental trolls sufficient punishment, or would you devise something more punitive?  Perhaps a week in the stocks?  Or jail even? 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13731 on: August 05, 2022, 11:42:12 AM »
What do you think should happen to them then?  Is getting abused online by judgemental trolls sufficient punishment, or would you devise something more punitive?  Perhaps a week in the stocks?  Or jail even?

Someone needed to take the poor woman aside & give her head a  damn good shake, but she's so heavily in denial with grief that she's convinced the poor lad was improving & gaining weight, trying to breathe etc.
The medical report, which I found quite disturbing to read but had to to get the facts, paints a very different picture to the story she's been portraying to the media.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2022, 11:44:45 AM by Wonderfulspam »
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13732 on: August 05, 2022, 11:45:06 AM »

Is Archie dead or not?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13733 on: August 05, 2022, 11:49:00 AM »
Is Archie dead or not?
He is currently being kept alive in hospital I believe.  He's not the first child in a brain dead state whose parents have fought tooth and nail over keeping him on life support and I don't suppose he shall be the last, but clearly it's good entertainment value for some people to sit in judgement over what is right and what is wrong for another person's child and how they react in the face of such devastating circumstances.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Eleanor

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13734 on: August 05, 2022, 11:51:46 AM »
He is currently being kept alive in hospital I believe.  He's not the first child in a brain dead state whose parents have fought tooth and nail over keeping him on life support and I don't suppose he shall be the last, but clearly it's good entertainment value for some people to sit in judgement over what is right and what is wrong for another person's child and how they react in the face of such devastating circumstances.

Same old same old.

Offline jassi

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13735 on: August 05, 2022, 11:52:41 AM »
I read in the Guardian or Independent, forget which, that she's prepared to give mouth to mouth if he's taken off oxygen.
Good luck with that one.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Myster

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13736 on: August 05, 2022, 12:03:32 PM »
Is Archie dead or not?
Court Judgement - June 2022, Page 42 onwards...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13737 on: August 05, 2022, 12:04:17 PM »
Is Archie dead or not?

He was declared dead months ago.
He needs something like 20+ medical interventions to keep his heart beating, but has no blood flow in the brain & major necrosis.  The court medical report makes for horrific reading.
Thankfully the court have seen sense & are refusing his move to a hospice.
His mother might need to be dragged screaming by police from his bedside when they switch off the machines.
It's sad, I do feel for his mother, she's in such major denial & anger, but her behaviour just warrants a mention imo. No harm in that really.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13738 on: August 05, 2022, 12:05:04 PM »
Court Judgement - June 2022, Page 42 onwards...

It's horrific. The poor lad is literally decomposing.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #13739 on: August 05, 2022, 12:07:18 PM »
Court Judgement - June 2022, Page 42 onwards...
9. The devotion of the family is extraordinary, their dignity obvious, I have no
doubt at all that their worst fear is that the clinicians are right, and that their
much-loved son has lost his present and his future and that this period in which
their lives have been in suspension is coming to an end.

I couldn't read much more - just too sad
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".