Wandering Off Topic

[Joe Blogs]

Kate didn't search anyway. In her book she claims she did, but, 5 minutes after the alarm was raised & others were searching, when Diane went to the apartment, Kate was sat on the bed. No one witnessed her running from end to end of the car park crying for Madeleine & conveniently wishing she'd dressed her in long sleeves. There are no witnesses to any of that. Just Kate sat on her arse & making no effort at all to contact the police.

Was the window still open when the police arrived, Spam? Is it in their report?

[kizzy]

They might have known in their hearts that Madeleine had been abducted.  The window blind and curtains had all been shut Madeleine was asleep in her bed when they left her.  What would you think?   You still search whatever you think.

What are you talking about half an hour later Gerry had photo's of Madeleine looking like a two year old?  I believe they were photo's of her from the Christmas before her hair was shorter but you could see it was Madeleine it was a good close up of her.

Look you may say the shutters were jemmied they were not meant to open from the outside.  It's a figure of speech that has been taken way out of context.   

What do you think Gerry was doing when he went to the apartment?  Not carrying Madeleine off to some waste ground that's for sure.  He met Jeremy who said he behaved completely normally.

What are you talking about half an hour later Gerry had photo's of Madeleine looking like a two year old?  I believe they were photo's of her from the Christmas before her hair was shorter but you could see it was Madeleine it was a good close up of her.

Who said it was taken at Christmas.

Looked nothing like Maddie on the holiday.....seems too me it looked more like Lilli DP daughter. and a couple more of the children at High tea.

I believe it could have caused confusion ...for those who thought they saw Maddie.

[Wonderfulspam]

Was the window still open when the police arrived, Spam? Is it in their report?

When Diane got to the apartment she went outside & tried the shutters. So did Fiona. So, before the police arrived or were even called, people were messing with the evidence. The only immediate witnesses to the window having been opened by paedos, were Kate & Gerry.

[Joe Blogs]

When Diane got to the apartment she went outside & tried the shutters. So did Fiona. So, before the police arrived or were even called, people were messing with the evidence. The only immediate witnesses to the window having been opened by paedos, were Kate & Gerry.

OK thanks, Spam, I will have to read all the Tapas 7, police and Gerry and Kate initial statements in order to comment on the widow issue, which is obviously an important part of evidence!

[Wonderfulspam]

OK thanks, Spam, I will have to read all the Tapas 7, police and Gerry and Kate initial statements in order to comment on the widow issue, which is obviously an important part of evidence!

You'll find, like everything else in this case, we only have Kate & Gerry's word for it that the window was initially open, before everyone messed around with it. Kate's prints were on the window, not Brueckner's, however.

[kizzy]

Was the window still open when the police arrived, Spam? Is it in their report?

No, either g or kmcc closed it.

IIRC none of the tapas saw it.

Kmc disclosed about the blowing curtains etc ...much much  later on a documentary and in her book.

This may help.



The Door Story: Key Contradictions

Initial Statement (May 4, 2007) Kate told police the bedroom door was completely open when she entered at 10 p.m. She also said the window was open, the shutters raised, and the curtains drawn back. (No mention of "A gust of wind and bellowing curtains.")

Later Interviews and Book (2009?2011) She changed her story:
The door was ?open wider than we?d left it?.
She tried to close it, and it ?slammed shut? due to a gust of wind.
She then reopened it and saw Madeleine was gone.

Problem with the Gust of Wind
Police photos show the curtains were tucked behind furniture, not blown open.
Weather records show it was a calm night, with only a light breeze - not enough to slam doors or whoosh curtains.
Backfitting and Timeline Issues

The ?gust of wind? and door-slamming story did not appear in any original statements. It was added years later and featured heavily in media reconstructions.

Kate McCann retroactively suggested that Matt Oldfield may have left the bedroom door open during his earlier check in her 2009 interviews and later in her 2011 book Madeleine. This detail was not present in her original police statements from May 2007.
Police Observations
The Portuguese investigators concluded the scene had likely been staged, citing inconsistencies in the door, window, and curtain positions.

https://youtu.be/QAhVfrj1MrQ?t=1451

[Joe Blogs]

No, either g or kmcc closed it.

IIRC none of the tapas saw it.

Kmc disclosed about the blowing curtains etc ...much much  later on a documentary and in her book.

This may help.



The Door Story: Key Contradictions

Initial Statement (May 4, 2007) Kate told police the bedroom door was completely open when she entered at 10 p.m. She also said the window was open, the shutters raised, and the curtains drawn back. (No mention of "A gust of wind and bellowing curtains.")

Later Interviews and Book (2009?2011) She changed her story:
The door was ?open wider than we?d left it?.
She tried to close it, and it ?slammed shut? due to a gust of wind.
She then reopened it and saw Madeleine was gone.

Problem with the Gust of Wind
Police photos show the curtains were tucked behind furniture, not blown open.
Weather records show it was a calm night, with only a light breeze - not enough to slam doors or whoosh curtains.
Backfitting and Timeline Issues

The ?gust of wind? and door-slamming story did not appear in any original statements. It was added years later and featured heavily in media reconstructions.

Kate McCann retroactively suggested that Matt Oldfield may have left the bedroom door open during his earlier check in her 2009 interviews and later in her 2011 book Madeleine. This detail was not present in her original police statements from May 2007.
Police Observations
The Portuguese investigators concluded the scene had likely been staged, citing inconsistencies in the door, window, and curtain positions.

https://youtu.be/QAhVfrj1MrQ?t=1451

OK, thanks , Kizzy, i'm reading the statements and timeline at the moment.
Apparently Gerry closed the window.
Kate describes the open window in the 'timeline' posts near the end of the index of files that Vertigo just posted, whether or not that was taken from Kates 4th may statement I do not know?
Will continue to research the files!

[Vertigo Swirl]

How not very surprising that in the space of 24 hours on this thread the MCCanns have been criticised for both searching and for not searching for their daughter in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine?s disappearance.  Whatever they do or did, or didn?t do it?s wrong as far as their critics are concerned.

[kizzy]

How not very surprising that in the space of 24 hours on this thread the MCCanns have been criticised for both searching and for not searching for their daughter in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine?s disappearance.  Whatever they do or did, or didn?t do it?s wrong as far as their critics are concerned.

What was wrong....was they were not investigated from the very beginning - and not abduction only.



Retired Scotland Yard detective Colin Sutton claimed he was warned that the Metropolitan Police's investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance (Operation Grange) was restricted, alleging that he was told it would be an investigation where "you were told what things you could and couldn't look at".

 from the start: Sutton, who was tipped to lead the investigation, stated in 2019 that the inquiry was from the beginning due to a narrow focus, reducing its chances of success.

Restricted Focus: Sutton noted that Operation Grange was heavily focused on the theory that Madeleine was abducted, with an agenda that appeared to exclude investigating the parents.

[Wonderfulspam]

How not very surprising that in the space of 24 hours on this thread the MCCanns have been criticised for both searching and for not searching for their daughter in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine?s disappearance.  Whatever they do or did, or didn?t do it?s wrong as far as their critics are concerned.

It is possible to criticise both Kate, for sitting on her arse & not bothering to call the police, & Gerry for suggesting they all split up & search (kate excluded) when there was no conclusion possible from the evidence than that Maddie had been dragged out of the window by paedos.  He didn't need to be searching, he needed to be calling the police immediately really. But, he had other matters to attend obviously.

[Wonderfulspam]

Gerry claims he sent Matt to reception, but it was Fiona who sent Matt, when Matt hadn't witnessed the window lying open initially, only after others had messed with it, so, he was unable to convey the child abduction by paedos from bed via window urgency & would only know to report to them that she had gone missing.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Matt Oldfield puts the time he asked reception to call the police at 5/10 minutes past 10.  This ties in with the alarm being raised about 10pm, and not very much earlier as has been suggested.  He describes the whole group as being in a state of utter panic so it is highly unlikely his request to phone the police lacked urgency.  What is surprising is the lack of urgency shown by the receptionist who clearly waited half an hour or so before actually phoning the police, if police call records are to be believed.

[Wonderfulspam]

Matt Oldfield puts the time he asked reception to call the police at 5/10 minutes past 10.  This ties in with the alarm being raised about 10pm, and not very much earlier as has been suggested.  He describes the whole group as being in a state of utter panic so it is highly unlikely his request to phone the police lacked urgency.  What is surprising is the lack of urgency shown by the receptionist who clearly waited half an hour or so before actually phoning the police, if police call records are to be believed.

They all messed around searching before Fiona sent Matt to reception. Fiona, Matt's & Russell's steak evidence show that Russell had only had a few bites of his steak before Kate came screaming. Russell had returned to the table about 9:45. It didn't take him 15 minutes to eat half a steak. And it definitely didn't take him 30 minutes as Gerry claimed when he put the time at 10:13, having been worried by Kate's extra long check, which she said took her only 15 seconds. Why don't you believe Gerry, that Kate took 10 minutes to search the apartment?

[Wonderfulspam]

Where did Gerry have to go in a hurry? Can anyone tell me exactly where Gerry searched between when the alarm was raised & when he went to reception at 10:40? Because there's evidence he might have been half way down Rui escola, uncomfortably carrying a Maddie in the wrong pyjamas, who was possibly doing something other than sleeping.

[Wonderfulspam]

There's evidence of that, but what's noticeably absent here is the evidence against Christian Brueckner. We never really talk about that because there's nothing to really talk about.