Wandering Off Topic

[Vertigo Swirl]

Poor VS believes NATO is a defensive alliance.


Countries attacked by the United States (selected major cases since World War II)

Japan (1945)
North Korea (1950?1953)
China (during the Korean War)
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Lebanon
Dominican Republic
Grenada
Libya
Panama
Iraq (1991, 1993, 1998, 2003?2011, and later operations)
Somalia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Sudan
Afghanistan (1998 strikes; 2001?2021 war)
Serbia / Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (1999)
Pakistan (drone strikes)
Yemen
Syria
Iran (limited strikes, including 2020)
Others through smaller-scale strikes or special operations. The U.S. has also conducted hundreds of military interventions of varying sizes since its founding.


Countries attacked by NATO as an alliance

Bosnia and Herzegovina (1994?1995 air operations)
Serbia / Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Kosovo air campaign, 1999)
Afghanistan (ISAF mission after 2001)
Libya (2011 air campaign enforcing UN Security Council Resolution 1973)

NATO has also conducted peacekeeping, training, maritime security, and humanitarian missions in places such as Kosovo, Iraq, Pakistan, the Mediterranean, and the Horn of Africa, but these are distinct from offensive military campaigns.


NATO is an extension of the US military. The 'threat' of boogie man Russia attacking NATO countries was dreamt up to boost sales for the military industrial complex.

Poor VS has never given any opinion on what NATO is or isn?t, I?m simply challenging the notion that Russia was right to invade a sovereign country that had already forfeited its nuclear weapons, was not and is not a part of NATO and therefore posed no threat to Russia?s stability until the latter decided to invade and kill thousands of innocent Ukranians.  I will not side with a corrupt despot and murderer like Putin, and no amount of nonsense from you or your copy and pasted stupid lists will ever change my opinion.   Vietnam was a NATO war was it?  Absolute rubbish. 

[Vertigo Swirl]

Does Russia pose no threat to Europe Spam?

[Wonderfulspam]

Poor VS has never given any opinion on what NATO is or isn?t, I?m simply challenging the notion that Russia was right to invade a sovereign country that had already forfeited its nuclear weapons, was not and is not a part of NATO and therefore posed no threat to Russia?s stability until the latter decided to invade and kill thousands of innocent Ukranians.  I will not side with a corrupt despot and murderer like Putin, and no amount of nonsense from you or your copy and pasted stupid lists will ever change my opinion.   Vietnam was a NATO war was it?  Absolute rubbish.

You are completely ignoring the fact that Ukranians were killing Russian speakers in the East of Ukraine after the US backed 2014 coup which caused a civil war that lasted 8 years, prior to Russia launching it's SMO in order to protect Russian speakers in the East & South of the country, as shown on the electoral map I posted.

[Wonderfulspam]

Does Russia pose no threat to Europe Spam?

Why would Russia want to attack Europe/NATO, prior to the civil war in Ukraine? To what end? How would Russia benefit from attacking EU/NATO?

[Wonderfulspam]

Europe has nothing to offer Russia. No vast areas of natural resources. Just massive welfare bills & lots of immigrants. There's no good reason at all for Russia to want to conquer Europe or attack it. Russia on the other hand has vast amounts of natural resources ripe for plundering by the west, if Russia collapses. It is also in a strategic position to encircle China. Plenty of reasons for the US/NATO to want Russia to collapse.

[Wonderfulspam]

During the civil war in Ukraine after the 2014 coup & up until the start of Russia's SMO in 2022

3,404 civilians killed

About 4,400 Ukrainian military personnel

About 6,500 members of Russian-backed separatist forces

Total killed: Approximately 14,200 - 14,400 people

[Vertigo Swirl]

Why would Russia want to attack Europe/NATO, prior to the civil war in Ukraine? To what end? How would Russia benefit from attacking EU/NATO?

Does Russia post no threat to Europe Spam?  You haven?t answered the question.  I already posted a link to 5 well reasoned potential attack targets which you dismissed as American propaganda but you didn?t say why it was improbable or badly reasoned.

[Vertigo Swirl]

You are completely ignoring the fact that Ukranians were killing Russian speakers in the East of Ukraine after the US backed 2014 coup which caused a civil war that lasted 8 years, prior to Russia launching it's SMO in order to protect Russian speakers in the East & South of the country, as shown on the electoral map I posted.

I know there is little point in engaging with you on this particular subject as you have drunk deeply of Putin?s Kool Aid but here are the facts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_Donbas

[Vertigo Swirl]

Europe has nothing to offer Russia. No vast areas of natural resources. Just massive welfare bills & lots of immigrants. There's no good reason at all for Russia to want to conquer Europe or attack it. Russia on the other hand has vast amounts of natural resources ripe for plundering by the west, if Russia collapses. It is also in a strategic position to encircle China. Plenty of reasons for the US/NATO to want Russia to collapse.

You?ve posted this twice now.  Based on your rationale Europe is a literal waste of space with nothing to offer and may as well stop spending on defence altogether as no other country in the world would be interested in attacking it or taking its territory.  Is this what you believe?

[Wonderfulspam]

Does Russia post no threat to Europe Spam?  You haven?t answered the question.  I already posted a link to 5 well reasoned potential attack targets which you dismissed as American propaganda but you didn?t say why it was improbable or badly reasoned.

Russia has massive pipelines connected to Europe. Germany was to become Russia's biggest energy customer. Until the US blew up the gas pipeline, forcing Germany & the rest of Europe to buy expensive LNG from the US. Why would Russia want to attack it's customers? And I dismissed the article you posted because it is propaganda funded by the US government.

[Wonderfulspam]

You?ve posted this twice now.  Based on your rationale Europe is a literal waste of space with nothing to offer and may as well stop spending on defence altogether as no other country in the world would be interested in attacking it or taking its territory.  Is this what you believe?

What does Europe have to offer Russia?

[Wonderfulspam]

I know there is little point in engaging with you on this particular subject as you have drunk deeply of Putin?s Kool Aid but here are the facts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_Donbas

The casualty statistics I posted from the civil war in East Ukraine are from the UN.

[Wonderfulspam]

I never said anything about there being a genocide in East Ukraine. But there was a US/EU backed & provoked civil war between 2014 & 2022 against East Ukraine, where the Russian leaning Russian speakers mostly live. With the Russian side sustaining more casualties than the West Ukraine forces attacking them.

The 2010-2014 electoral map shows the split between the two sides & the red majority pro Russian areas are where Russia will be aiming to liberate.

[Wonderfulspam]

Russia has massive pipelines connected to Europe. Germany was to become Russia's biggest energy customer. Until the US blew up the gas pipeline, forcing Germany & the rest of Europe to buy expensive LNG from the US. Why would Russia want to attack it's customers? And I dismissed the article you posted because it is propaganda funded by the US government.

Maybe Russia wanted to build massive pipelines into Europe to sell them loads of gas, then later, invade Europe & steal all the gas back from them & then sell it to someone else.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Russia has massive pipelines connected to Europe. Germany was to become Russia's biggest energy customer. Until the US blew up the gas pipeline, forcing Germany & the rest of Europe to buy expensive LNG from the US. Why would Russia want to attack it's customers? And I dismissed the article you posted because it is propaganda funded by the US government.

You?re still not answering the question.  Why are the 5 strategic attack scenarios in the article invalid in your view and don?t just spout because US propaganda, give me some actual refutations.