Why didn't the dogs alert to any of Gerry's clothing?

[Montclair]

I agree. Which begs the question - what was the point of the PJ exercise in the gym if it  didn't specifically include the very items worn on 3rd May (including what was worn before dinner) in the dogs' inspection?

No one knows what clothes they wore on 3 May.

[ferryman]

Unlss youree arguing cadaver scent was there before  then well i suppose peole can have heart attacks at the gym but wouldnt lie there for hours

Here is what I refer to:

1. Between 23h20 and 23h30 the two dogs were allowed to reconoitre the entire area to guarantee that there were no existing odours - and none were detected by them.

2. Between 23h30 and 23h40 items from the box labelled 'common room' were inspected by the blood dog without result.
- At 23h41 the cadaver dog began its inspection and 'marked' some clothing on the edge of the area. The inspection ended at 23h52 with the clothing having been collected for later direct examination and photographic report.

For the reconnoitre to have any meaning, it would have had to be conducted without clothes laid out (otherwise, what's the point of a reconnoitre?)

Yet without pause (following the reconnoitre) the inspection (of clothing) was launched.

Suggesting that the clothes were laid out before the reconnoitre. 

Or did the PJ read the instructions Mark Harrison handed them (following that inspection) on how to conduct inspections in buildings and vehicles and crib from them (without really understanding what they read)?

The latter is my bet.

Not that Martin Grime was other than a top dog-handler.

Obviously .....

[pathfinder73]

Of course no clothes would be unboxed or laid out before the dogs had checked the place for any odour. What is this nonsense.

[ferryman]

Of course no clothes would be unboxed or laid out before the dogs had checked the place for any odour. What is this nonsense.

Read what the record says.

They were.

And since there was zero consideration to principles of cross-contamination in the way the clothes were transported from the villa (where Eddie showed no interest in them) to the gym (for a second inspection) why would there have been the slightest preoccupation with the possibility of pre-existing scents in the gym?

The timeline of these searches was as follows:
 
On 31-07-07 the PJ conducted canine searches with a search warrant at apartments in Praia da Luz that had been previously occupied by the McCanns and their friends.
 
On 01-08-07 the PJ and GNR assisted by a canine, conducted searches on the eastern beach and wasteland in Praia da Luz.
 
On 02-08-07 the PJ conducted a search warrant at a villa in Praia da Luz currently occupied by the McCann family.
 
Later the same day PJ officers conducted a screening procedure involving items removed from the McCann’s villa.
 
On 03-08-07 PJ and GNR officers were given instruction based on translated extracts from NPIA doctrine on search management and procedures. This focused on search procedures relating to buildings and vehicles.
 
On 04-08-07 and 05-08-07 a search warrant was executed at the villa and gardens belonging to the PJ suspect Robert Murat. This search involved both PJ and GNR personnel supported by civil defence, geophysical equipment operators and a canine handler.
 
On 06-08-07 ten vehicles were searched associated to the enquiry.
 
On 07-08-07 the western beach and remaining wasteland areas were searched using canine and GNR personnel.
 
On 08-08-07 the drains around the apartment block where Madeleine McCann disappeared from were subject to a visual inspection by PJ officers.

Mark Harrison.

[Benice]

What people recall from the inspections at Ocean Club, the rental villa and at the gym is that only clothing and belongings which had come into contact with Maddie were alerted to.  Does anyone else find that simply too much of a coincidence?

IMO it's an amazing co-incidence that not a single soul out of the thousands of people who must have stayed in the other apartments, apparently ever bled or left residual scents of any other alertable cellular material  - which Martin Grime assures us his dogs would alert to - even decades after they were deposited and even if they were not visible to the naked eye, and were too minute to be detected by forensic examination.

Also may I ask you Angelo  - what is your opinon of Martin Grime's observation that every item of clothing alerted to  in the gym had all been packed in the same box?    What are of the chances of that happening by sheer co-incidence?

Your reply would be appreciated.

[Benice]

No one knows what clothes they wore on 3 May.

We know what Gerry wore - a light brown polar top, blue jeans and trainers.

[ferryman]

IMO it's an amazing co-incidence that not a single soul out of the thousands of people who must have stayed in the other apartments, apparently ever bled or left residual scents of any other alertable cellular material  - which Martin Grime assures us his dogs would alert to - even decades after they were deposited and even if they were not visible to the naked eye, and were too minute to be detected by forensic examination.

Also may I ask you Angelo  - what is your opinon of Martin Grime's observation that every item of clothing alerted to  in the gym had all been packed in the same box?    What are of the chances of that happening by sheer co-incidence?

Your reply would be appreciated.

To add to Benice's excellent post above (the first 3 letters apart, spit!), why was an inordinate amount of time spent in inspection of apartment 5a, while inspection of all other villas were whistle-stop?

[pegasus]

(snip) Also may I ask you Angelo  - what is your opinon of Martin Grime's observation that every item of clothing alerted to  in the gym had all been packed in the same box?    What are of the chances of that happening by sheer co-incidence? (snip)

This box contained items all from the "sala comum" which is the dining area. Not a usual place to store clothes. So why were these clothes pillows and pillowcases in the dining area?

Easy, they had been washed in the washing machine, dried on the racks outside on the jacuzzi patio area, then brought into the adjacent dining area and folded and placed in neat piles in the dining area, ready to be put away upstairs later.

So the thing all the items in the "sala comum" box have in common is they had all just been washed and dried?

[Benice]

To add to Benice's excellent post above (the first 3 letters apart, spit!), why was an inordinate amount of time spent in inspection of apartment 5a, while inspection of all other villas were whistle-stop?

It seems to me that 'time allowed to search' is the obvious discrepancy between searches of anything McCann related - and other searches.

It's plain from the videos that the dogs do not always go in and immediately identify and make a beeline for a place or object that has been contaminated.    If that was the case then surely Eddie would have immediately alerted to Cuddlecat - and Keela would have alerted to the white curtains on her first search - and Eddie would have alerted to the keyfob on his first encounter with the Renault.

The dogs obviously need time.   

The longest time spent on any of the other cars was around 30 seconds - and no alerts were made.   After the same amount of time i.e. 30 seconds was spent on the Renault  - no alerts had been made.   It was only after being given a lot more time and encouragement regarding the Renault that Eddie finally alerted.     What would have happened if all the other cars had been given the same amount of time and attention?

IMO it's highly likely that other alerts would have occurred, because (as with the apartments) it's hard to believe that no alertable material had ever been deposited in those 9 cars - either in the factory while they were being built - or by their subsequent owners/families/friends.

[Benice]

This box contained items all from the "sala comum" which is the dining area. Not a usual place to store clothes. So why were these clothes pillows and pillowcases in the dining area?

Easy, they had been washed in the washing machine, dried on the racks outside on the jacuzzi patio area, then brought into the adjacent dining area and folded and placed in neat piles in the dining area, ready to be put away upstairs later.

So the thing all the items in the "sala comum" box have in common is they had all just been washed and dried?

What are the chances of ALL of the clothes alerted to just happening by co-incidence to have been in the same wash?   The chances of that happening by chance must be as astronomical.

Also - AFAIK most people separate the coloureds from the whites when they are sorting out the washing for the washing machine.  For instance -   I wouldn't be putting a red top and blue shorts in the same wash as a white top. 

Whether they did that or not I don't know - but it still doesn't explain how -  out of an entire wardrobe of 5 people - all the items which were subsequently alerted to - just happened by sheer coincidence to have been washed on that day. 

Sorry  - doesn't work for me Pegasus.

[G-Unit]

We know what Gerry wore - a light brown polar top, blue jeans and trainers.

Correction; we know what Gerry said he wore. Certainly he was wearing it on 4th as his wife was wearing what she said she wore the night before. How did Silvia describe what Gerry wore as 'dark coloured' then?

[Brietta]

They were obviously advsed by uk police

You think they were?

Had that been the case I would have expected individual items to have been packed in clearly marked evidence bags to cut out the risk of cross contamination.

I would not have expected items which could have been evidence to have been placed on the floor of a public building for dogs to walk and slaver over.

Can't you see how bizarre this whole episode was?

[John]

Members are reminded that this forum has strict rules on defamation.  Please do not post content which amounts to speculation or theory, keep to the facts and the evidence as recorded in the files. Thank you.

[Benice]

Correction; we know what Gerry said he wore. Certainly he was wearing it on 4th as his wife was wearing what she said she wore the night before. How did Silvia describe what Gerry wore as 'dark coloured' then?

It's so easy to be a sceptic if you adopt the theory that anything Kate or Gerry said which suits your agenda - is set in stone, but anything they said which doesn't fit in with your agenda -  has to be considered as -  shall we say..... 'unreliable'.

Tell me G - if Gerry had said he was wearing light coloured trousers, a dark top and shoes on the evening of the 3rd May- would you still be saying...... ''We know what Gerry said he wore'' (hint hint)     -     or would you be claiming there was irrefutable proof that he wore clothing matching that of Smithman - because he said so?

As I've said before  - anyone can make a case against anybody by using those 'tactics.

[pegasus]

What are the chances of ALL of the clothes alerted to just happening by co-incidence to have been in the same wash?   The chances of that happening by chance must be as astronomical.

Also - AFAIK most people separate the coloureds from the whites when they are sorting out the washing for the washing machine.  For instance -   I wouldn't be putting a red top and blue shorts in the same wash as a white top. 

Whether they did that or not I don't know - but it still doesn't explain how -  out of an entire wardrobe of 5 people - all the items which were subsequently alerted to - just happened by sheer coincidence to have been washed on that day. 

Sorry  - doesn't work for me Pegasus.

In the Panorama footage by JC lots of clothing etc is drying on racks on the patio just outside the dining area, that footage was taken on 2 Aug, and the villa search was later on 2 Aug.