IS THIS TENNIS PHOTO REAL ...OR COULD IT BE FAKE...

[John]

The thing that baffles most is the apparent strength and size of Madeleine in the photo.  It is a matter of perception trying to imagine how big she was to begin with. How tanned she was.  Goncalo must have thought it was real for he could even see bruises on her arms.  (I suppose he was looking at an original)

That is why that particular photo is extremely useful.  Madeleine was not a toddler, she was quite capable of getting out of her parent's apartment had she wanted to, we know that she was a determined young girl. A closed but unlocked patio door and a child safety gate were no impediment to her as some have previously claimed.

[G-Unit]

I think Gunit was trying to show that children's tennis should if possible be undertaken with slower balls which bounce lower.  These balls are coloured or multicoloured as depicted in the photo in order to distinguish them from normal tennis balls.



The original unedited photo of Madeleine above would appear to show her after collecting tennis balls from an adult game rather than taking part in a game herself.

For the record, I seem to recall creating the overexposed edited image so no mystery.

Thank you John, that's what I was  pointing out. I also posted a pic of Mark Warner coaches using the correct balls with young players, as they should. All the coaches in all the MW resorts would do the same.

[Lace]

Didn't it say somewhere (Gawd knows where, but someone may be able to confirm this) that Madeleine was running around picking up the balls in an adult game of tennis ?

Kate doesn't actually WHAT tennis balls they were asked to collect Sadie,  so it could be that they were asked to collect all tennis balls.

[Lace]

Are they? I thought we were discussing the provenance of the photograph, not the tennis lesson.

So what you are saying is,   Madeleine DID have a mini tennis game,  just as Kate claimed she did,  BUT it so happens that Madeleine had her photograph taken collecting balls from another time she played collecting tennis balls in another court somewhere else,  and Kate just happened to take a photo of her collecting the balls in another court in another place?   Was Jane there taking a photo too of this other place?

[G-Unit]

So what you are saying is,   Madeleine DID have a mini tennis game,  just as Kate claimed she did,  BUT it so happens that Madeleine had her photograph taken collecting balls from another time she played collecting tennis balls in another court somewhere else,  and Kate just happened to take a photo of her collecting the balls in another court in another place?   Was Jane there taking a photo too of this other place?

What I am saying is that most tennis coaches, including the Mark Warner coaches, use tennis balls appropriate to the age group of the players. As Madeleine is clutching adult tennis balls it seems unlikely that they had been used by the Minis. I suppose they could have been left lying around the court by previous players.

Jane Tanner says she was there, but she thought it was Wednesday. She denies taking any photos of the children and doesn't mention Kate rushing off to get her camera. Jane also thinks she played tennis with Rachael for an hour every morning though, which Rachael denies......

[Miss Taken Identity]

What I am saying is that most tennis coaches, including the Mark Warner coaches, use tennis balls appropriate to the age group of the players. As Madeleine is clutching adult tennis balls it seems unlikely that they had been used by the Minis. I suppose they could have been left lying around the court by previous players.

Jane Tanner says she was there, but she thought it was Wednesday. She denies taking any photos of the children and doesn't mention Kate rushing off to get her camera. Jane also thinks she played tennis with Rachael for an hour every morning though, which Rachael denies......

YUP.

And Kate doesn't say she took the picture on that day-  that day they all get confused about.

[Robittybob1]

That is why that particular photo is extremely useful.  Madeleine was not a toddler, she was quite capable of getting out of her parent's apartment had she wanted to, we know that she was a determined young girl. A closed but unlocked patio door and a child safety gate were no impediment to her as some have previously claimed.

I still think Kate's point was that Madeleine would not have bothered to close the doors and gates behind her rather than Kate doubting Madeleine was capable of opening these doors and gates.   Kate knows Madeleine and she would not have opened and closed those all in sequence.

[John]

I still think Kate's point was that Madeleine would not have bothered to close the doors and gates behind her rather than Kate doubting Madeleine was capable of opening these doors and gates.   Kate knows Madeleine and she would not have opened and closed those all in sequence.

We have no independent proof that the door or gate were closed.

[John]

I still think Kate's point was that Madeleine would not have bothered to close the doors and gates behind her rather than Kate doubting Madeleine was capable of opening these doors and gates.   Kate knows Madeleine and she would not have opened and closed those all in sequence.

Unfortunately, we have no independent proof that either the patio door or the child safety gate were actually closed or that the children's bedroom window was found open because all three were disturbed before any independent witnesses arrived on the scene.

[Robittybob1]

Unfortunately, we have no independent proof that either the patio door or the child safety gate were actually closed or that the children's bedroom window was found open because all three were disturbed before any independent witnesses arrived on the scene.

She has to go through the gates to get there to find Madeleine missing so there is no way anyone can possibly verify what happened before Kate went there, without basically making themselves the next accused abductor.

[G-Unit]

She has to go through the gates to get there to find Madeleine missing so there is no way anyone can possibly verify what happened before Kate went there, without basically making themselves the next accused abductor.

However Kate found the gates they were left that way by Matthew.

[Robittybob1]

However Kate found the gates they were left that way by Matthew.

I often agree with you but this time I don't.  She might assume Matt was last through the gate but that is an argument from ignorance.  For if she found the gates wide open would that mean Matt also left them wide open?

[G-Unit]

I often agree with you but this time I don't.  She might assume Matt was last through the gate but that is an argument from ignorance.  For if she found the gates wide open would that mean Matt also left them wide open?

Was Matthew able to state categorically that both gates were closed when he checked? If not, the child could have left before he arrived.

[Lace]

What I am saying is that most tennis coaches, including the Mark Warner coaches, use tennis balls appropriate to the age group of the players. As Madeleine is clutching adult tennis balls it seems unlikely that they had been used by the Minis. I suppose they could have been left lying around the court by previous players.

Jane Tanner says she was there, but she thought it was Wednesday. She denies taking any photos of the children and doesn't mention Kate rushing off to get her camera. Jane also thinks she played tennis with Rachael for an hour every morning though, which Rachael denies......

Russell says it was Wednesday too,   when talking about the man taking photo's of his child having a mini tennis lesson on the Thursday he says -  I recall that Madeleine and Ella had had a similar lesson the day before.

The confusion arises as there were other groups having mini tennis lessons.

The fact is that Madeleine had a mini tennis lesson,  the instructor said she did and group members said she did,  to say that Kate put a photo of Madeleine out for all to see,  that was taken at a different time in a different place is I am sorry ridiculous.    Someone would have come forward and said,  no that didn't happen Madeleine wasn't asked to collect adult tennis balls,  but no one has.

[slartibartfast]

I don't think the photo is a fake, but I also don't think it was taken in Luz. My reasons are that the balls are adult balls which children wouldn't have been using, and I don't think a tennis coach would allow sandals to be worn. I'm also surprised at the speed with which the photo was shared with friends.

So what?

We were told it was taken in Luz.

Though not specifically by the main players. IMO