Analysis of the timeline

[G-Unit]

20.35   Gerry & Kate at restaurant     
20.40   Jane Tanner at restaurant     
20.42   Matt and Rachael at restaurant     
20.45   Russell at restaurant     
20.55   Matt 1st check                                                Passes the Paynes and Dianne Webster
20.57   Matt listens     
21.00   Matt returns 1st check                                Starters ordered   
21.05   GM 1st check     
21.15   Jane sighting                                                GM & JEZ talking north of gate.   
21.20   Jane returns                                                Starters have arrived   
21.25   Matt and Russ go check     
21.30   Matt McCann apartment check     
21.35   Matt returns from  McCann apartment check        Mains have arrived   
21.40   Jane relieves Russ     
21.45   Russ returns     
21.55   Russ food served     
22.00   Kate check                                                        Searches all rooms and wardrobes then heads back   
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Fiona agreed with Dianne in her 4th May statement. She said they left for dinner at 20.45. No other times are given.

In her rogatory interview she now says ten to or five to nine. They saw Matt near the McCann's gate. The food was served very quickly that night, she said. Is twenty minutes quick for the starters to be served? Gerry left to check at nine-ish, after Matt returned. Then Jane went, no time given Matt and Russell went at half nine. Russell stayed with his daughter. Jane wolfed her main, which had just arrived and went to relieve him. Kate went to check between 9.45 and 10pm. She returns to give the alarm just as Russell;s meal arrives.

Fiona mentions her conversation with Kate about leaving the patio door unlocked, which Kate was unsure about due to Madeleine's 'crying' comment. She also remembers an earlier conversation about it;

 'Erm, I mean, I was aware of them swapping their arrangement at some point, because I know they had been coming, using the front door, erm, which is the door with the key, to go in and check the children, and then, at some point, that changed to using the back door, just because, as you can see from the map, it was quicker for them to do that and easier to get in, then just sort of quickly nip in through the French doors and out again. I couldn't tell you what point that was, but I know, I know there was a conversation about, oh we've started nipping in that way rather than going the long way round.........'Erm, I mean, my feeling is, you know, they did it the front way for a couple of night and the rest left it open, but I don't know, I mean, they'd know that, as I say, I just remember the conversation'.....you just assume everyone's locked their apartments and gone. And, as I say, I assume Kate and Gerry had even done that, it was only that night I realised that they hadn't or I'd even thought about the fact they were going in the French doors and you couldn't lock it from the outside, but I was aware their system changed and I was aware erm, on that night that their apartment was unlocked'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

A bit of a dog's breakfast there. Fiona seems to know all about the McCanns using the patio door after the first couple of nights or she learned about it that night (Thursday)???. That calls into question Russell's tale of checking the MCann children using the unlocked patio door on the Sunday night, but more of that later.

[sadie]

20.35   Gerry & Kate at restaurant     
20.40   Jane Tanner at restaurant     
20.42   Matt and Rachael at restaurant     
20.45   Russell at restaurant     
20.55   Matt 1st check                                                Passes the Paynes and Dianne Webster
20.57   Matt listens     
21.00   Matt returns 1st check                                Starters ordered   
21.05   GM 1st check     
21.15   Jane sighting                                             GM & JEZ talking north of gate.
21.15- 21.20  Gerry returns
21.20   Jane returns                                                Starters have arrived   
21.25   Matt and Russ go check     
21.30   Matt McCann apartment check     
21.35   Matt returns from  McCann apartment check        Mains have arrived   
21.40   Jane relieves Russ     
21.45   Russ returns     
21.55   Russ food served     
22.00   Kate check                                                        Searches all rooms and wardrobes then heads back   
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Fiona agreed with Dianne in her 4th May statement. She said they left for dinner at 20.45. No other times are given.

In her rogatory interview she now says ten to or five to nine. They saw Matt near the McCann's gate. The food was served very quickly that night, she said. Is twenty minutes quick for the starters to be served? Gerry left to check at nine-ish, after Matt returned. Then Jane went, no time given Matt and Russell went at half nine. Russell stayed with his daughter. Jane wolfed her main, which had just arrived and went to relieve him. Kate went to check between 9.45 and at 10.00.
At about 10pm. She returns to give the alarm just as about 6 minutes after Russell;s meal arrives.

Fiona mentions her conversation with Kate about leaving the patio door unlocked, which Kate was unsure about due to Madeleine's 'crying' comment. She also remembers an earlier conversation about it;

 'Erm, I mean, I was aware of them swapping their arrangement at some point, because I know they had been coming, using the front door, erm, which is the door with the key, to go in and check the children, and then, at some point, that changed to using the back door, just because, as you can see from the map, it was quicker for them to do that and easier to get in, then just sort of quickly nip in through the French doors and out again. I couldn't tell you what point that was, but I know, I know there was a conversation about, oh we've started nipping in that way rather than going the long way round.........'Erm, I mean, my feeling is, you know, they did it the front way for a couple of night and the rest left it open, but I don't know, I mean, they'd know that, as I say, I just remember the conversation'.....you just assume everyone's locked their apartments and gone. And, as I say, I assume Kate and Gerry had even done that, it was only that night I realised that they hadn't or I'd even thought about the fact they were going in the French doors and you couldn't lock it from the outside, but I was aware their system changed and I was aware erm, on that night that their apartment was unlocked'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

A bit of a dog's breakfast there. Fiona seems to know all about the McCanns using the patio door after the first couple of nights or she learned about it that night (Thursday)???. That calls into question Russell's tale of checking the MCann children using the unlocked patio door on the Sunday night, but more of that later.

Quite a few errors in your timeline and following report, G-unit.

I have changed things that are wrong using maroon colour

Most especially, I noticede:  You left out from the official time line that Gerry returned before Jane.  How come that you made such a basic mistake?  Are you trying to make out that Gerry didn't return at that time?  Are you trying to make out that Gerry was up to something really nasty at that time?


Or did you just make a rather important mistake?  Plus the other mistakes you seem to have made   &%+((£ ?

[sadie]

-snip-
Fiona mentions her conversation with Kate about leaving the patio door unlocked, which Kate was unsure about due to Madeleine's 'crying' comment. She also remembers an earlier conversation about it;

 'Erm, I mean, I was aware of them swapping their arrangement at some point, because I know they had been coming, using the front door, erm, which is the door with the key, to go in and check the children, and then, at some point, that changed to using the back door, just because, as you can see from the map, it was quicker for them to do that and easier to get in, then just sort of quickly nip in through the French doors and out again. I couldn't tell you what point that was, but I know, I know there was a conversation about, oh we've started nipping in that way rather than going the long way round.........'Erm, I mean, my feeling is, you know, they did it the front way for a couple of night and the rest left it open, but I don't know, I mean, they'd know that, as I say, I just remember the conversation'.....you just assume everyone's locked their apartments and gone. And, as I say, I assume Kate and Gerry had even done that, it was only that night I realised that they hadn't or I'd even thought about the fact they were going in the French doors and you couldn't lock it from the outside, but I was aware their system changed and I was aware erm, on that night that their apartment was unlocked'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

A bit of a dog's breakfast there. Fiona seems to know all about the McCanns using the patio door after the first couple of nights or she learned about it that night (Thursday)???. That calls into question Russell's tale of checking the MCann children using the unlocked patio door on the Sunday night, but more of that later.

Russell knows on the Sunday, you say, yet Fiona only knew later?  Oh my!  How very  fishy!  BWHAHAHA  %£5&%


Have you ever been at a dinner party with 9 guests?   G-unit, not everyone knows what every one else is discussing.  Not everyone knows just what people who went back to their apartments also did.  Such is ther nature of dinner parties that mini conversations take place between neighbours at the table along with more general discussions.


Are you trying to make a mistery out of this ?   FGS



Trying to make another rod to beat The Mccanns and the Tapas group with?

[pathfinder73]

Quite a few errors in your timeline and following report, G-unit.

I have changed things that are wrong using maroon colour

Most especially, I noticede:  You left out from the official time line that Gerry returned before Jane.  How come that you made such a basic mistake?  Are you trying to make out that Gerry didn't return at that time?  Are you trying to make out that Gerry was up to something really nasty at that time?


Or did you just make a rather important mistake?  Plus the other mistakes you seem to have made   &%+((£ ?

He can't account for his time away. Matt said Gerry left straight away after he returned so how come it's 15 minutes later on the first timeline. How has leaving straight away after Matt turned into 15 minutes after? That is what I call a big red waving flag timeline inconsistency. It was later corrected to an exact time 9:04.

"When asked about the time he went to check the children on the night of Madeleine's disappearance, he states remembering that he did it, according to his watch, around 21:04." (GM 7 SEP 2007)

[G-Unit]

Quite a few errors in your timeline and following report, G-unit.

I have changed things that are wrong using maroon colour

Most especially, I noticede:  You left out from the official time line that Gerry returned before Jane.  How come that you made such a basic mistake?  Are you trying to make out that Gerry didn't return at that time?  Are you trying to make out that Gerry was up to something really nasty at that time?


Or did you just make a rather important mistake?  Plus the other mistakes you seem to have made   &%+((£ ?

I think you have misunderstood what I was doing Sadie. The timeline I'm using is the typed group timeline given to the PJ before 10th May. It says this;

2120: JT then returns to the restaurant, by which time GM had also returned.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

I didn't include that because no time was given.

The information below it is from Fiona Payne's interviews. Your maroon corrections are of no use because you are correcting what Fiona said;

'Erm, I was aware she'd gone, erm, at what exact point, again, it's got to be between quarter to ten and ten o'clock, somewhere in that time period'.

I remember just before Kate returned to the table having, having gone to check on, erm, on their kids, because that was pretty much when Russell's steak arrived, I remember that being at that point'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Not my errors, Sadie, sorry!

[G-Unit]

Russell knows on the Sunday, you say, yet Fiona only knew later?  Oh my!  How very  fishy!  BWHAHAHA  %£5&%


Have you ever been at a dinner party with 9 guests?   G-unit, not everyone knows what every one else is discussing.  Not everyone knows just what people who went back to their apartments also did.  Such is ther nature of dinner parties that mini conversations take place between neighbours at the table along with more general discussions.


Are you trying to make a mistery out of this ?   FGS



Trying to make another rod to beat The Mccanns and the Tapas group with?

No need to get so accusatory Sadie. It might help you to read the first post on the thread where I explain what I'm doing.

With regard to Russell he says he checked the McCann apartment on the Sunday night using the unlocked patio door to enter. (At the same time that he checked Matt's child using Matt's key, but wait.......Matt was in his apartment all Sunday evening as he was ill. Rachael said she didn't need to check that night so why would she give the key to Russell to check?)

Fiona says the McCanns didn't leave the patio door unlocked until later in the week.

One of them is doing that misremembering thing again.

[Brietta]

I think you have misunderstood what I was doing Sadie. The timeline I'm using is the typed group timeline given to the PJ before 10th May. It says this;

2120: JT then returns to the restaurant, by which time GM had also returned.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

I didn't include that because no time was given.

The information below it is from Fiona Payne's interviews. Your maroon corrections are of no use because you are correcting what Fiona said;

'Erm, I was aware she'd gone, erm, at what exact point, again, it's got to be between quarter to ten and ten o'clock, somewhere in that time period'.

I remember just before Kate returned to the table having, having gone to check on, erm, on their kids, because that was pretty much when Russell's steak arrived, I remember that being at that point'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Not my errors, Sadie, sorry!

Seems to be an analysis of what people thought and said was the appropriate time line rather than the timeline itself.

There is nothing external which defines for definite a minute by minute account of what people were doing;  CCTV coverage would have helped to pin it down.

What would have appeared suspicious imo would have been if a document had been produced which confirmed exactly where everyone was at a given moment in time.
However there were outside influences which they could neither know or have anticipated which might have upset that amount of collusion ... for example ~ Jez Wilkins and the Smiths entered the equation.

The most important timeline would be that of any criminals out at work that evening, I would be really interested in that ... I'm absolutely disinterested in scrutinising the timeline of a bunch of innocent people particularly as it goes nowhere near explaining what might have happened to Madeleine.

There were people in Luz on that night, for all we know may still be, who are privy to that information ... none of whom were dining at the McCann table in the tapas.

[pathfinder73]

Seems to be an analysis of what people thought and said was the appropriate time line rather than the timeline itself.

There is nothing external which defines for definite a minute by minute account of what people were doing;  CCTV coverage would have helped to pin it down.

What would have appeared suspicious imo would have been if a document had been produced which confirmed exactly where everyone was at a given moment in time.
However there were outside influences which they could neither know or have anticipated which might have upset that amount of collusion ... for example ~ Jez Wilkins and the Smiths entered the equation.

The most important timeline would be that of any criminals out at work that evening, I would be really interested in that ... I'm absolutely disinterested in scrutinising the timeline of a bunch of innocent people particularly as it goes nowhere near explaining what might have happened to Madeleine.

There were people in Luz on that night, for all we know may still be, who are privy to that information ... none of whom were dining at the McCann table in the tapas.

Two times stands out 9:04 and 10:03 because they were given exactly to the minute by checking his watch.

[Alice Purjorick]

Two times stands out 9:04 and 10:03 because they were given exactly to the minute by checking his watch.

Well one would expect precision him being a consultant cardiologist an' all 

[G-Unit]

Seems to be an analysis of what people thought and said was the appropriate time line rather than the timeline itself.

There is nothing external which defines for definite a minute by minute account of what people were doing;  CCTV coverage would have helped to pin it down.

What would have appeared suspicious imo would have been if a document had been produced which confirmed exactly where everyone was at a given moment in time.
However there were outside influences which they could neither know or have anticipated which might have upset that amount of collusion ... for example ~ Jez Wilkins and the Smiths entered the equation.

The most important timeline would be that of any criminals out at work that evening, I would be really interested in that ... I'm absolutely disinterested in scrutinising the timeline of a bunch of innocent people particularly as it goes nowhere near explaining what might have happened to Madeleine.

There were people in Luz on that night, for all we know may still be, who are privy to that information ... none of whom were dining at the McCann table in the tapas.

One of the reasons the timeline is interesting is because not one, not two, but three documents were produced showing where everyone was. The third joint effort was typed up and given to the PJ before 10th May. Russell says specifically that all nine agreed it together. Individual statements suggest otherwise. Fiona and Dianne say they arrived before Matt left. If so, the meal would have been ordered ten minutes earlier and served earlier too. Then Fiona's time of 10.45 for Kate to go check could be correct.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htmd

I am comparing their individual statements to their communal one. Sometimes in a communal exercise he or she who shouts loudest gets his or her own way.

[Brietta]

One of the reasons the timeline is interesting is because not one, not two, but three documents were produced showing where everyone was. The third joint effort was typed up and given to the PJ before 10th May. Russell says specifically that all nine agreed it together. Individual statements suggest otherwise. Fiona and Dianne say they arrived before Matt left. If so, the meal would have been ordered ten minutes earlier and served earlier too. Then Fiona's time of 10.45 for Kate to go check could be correct.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htmd

I am comparing their individual statements to their communal one. Sometimes in a communal exercise he or she who shouts loudest gets his or her own way.

Fine by me ... however I think you are directing your efforts in entirely the wrong direction.

[G-Unit]

Fine by me ... however I think you are directing your efforts in entirely the wrong direction.

If you were to explain why you think my efforts are being directed in the wrong direction I could answer. As it stands no answer is possible.

[Brietta]

If you were to explain why you think my efforts are being directed in the wrong direction I could answer. As it stands no answer is possible.

I have already ... you may have missed it or misunderstood it.

Your efforts are concentrated on innocent people ... who have been thoroughly investigated.

[Gadfly1.3]

I have already ... you may have missed it or misunderstood it.

Your efforts are concentrated on innocent people ... who have been thoroughly investigated.

Thoroughly would imply all investigative measures had been taken, right? 

[ferryman]

Thoroughly would imply all investigative measures had been taken, right?

Far beyond the analytical capabilities of amateur sleuths on the net, certainly ....