Author Topic: Analysis of the timeline  (Read 26043 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #105 on: April 16, 2016, 10:05:24 PM »
if the reconstruction was so important why did amaral not arrange one earlier on when all were there

Offline G-Unit

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #106 on: April 16, 2016, 10:12:07 PM »
Perhaps in countries in which there is no language barrier and in which official police interviews are intensive and recorded via audiovisual means or at least recorded verbatim.

This doesn't appear to have been the case.

Times are times whatever the language. No nuances can be missed when noting them down. Mistakes can easily be seen when signing the statements. The PJ didn't conduct intensive interviews because they didn't initially suspect anything was wrong with the group's accounts. That's probably why they didn't re-interview those outside the group who gave different times.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #107 on: April 16, 2016, 10:17:56 PM »
Times are times whatever the language. No nuances can be missed when noting them down. Mistakes can easily be seen when signing the statements. The PJ didn't conduct intensive interviews because they didn't initially suspect anything was wrong with the group's accounts. That's probably why they didn't re-interview those outside the group who gave different times.

I wonder how intently the mccanns listened when the statements were read back..they were probably in a daze

Offline Carana

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #108 on: April 16, 2016, 10:32:44 PM »
Times are times whatever the language. No nuances can be missed when noting them down. Mistakes can easily be seen when signing the statements. The PJ didn't conduct intensive interviews because they didn't initially suspect anything was wrong with the group's accounts. That's probably why they didn't re-interview those outside the group who gave different times.

That may depend on numerous circumstances.

If you're a PT waiter and just want to get it over with, you may end up signing on the dotted line.

If you don't understand Portuguese and someone close to you is missing, perhaps all you want to do is to get the ball rolling.

I've had to file a claim to the police before now (in a language that I didn't understand, but with basic interpreting assistance). All I was interested in was that my name and passport number were correct and the basic details of what had happened had been noted. Years later, I came across that statement again, and I now understand that language, and noticed that some details were correct, but others simply were not what I'd said.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 10:36:05 PM by Carana »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #109 on: April 16, 2016, 10:41:38 PM »
if the reconstruction was so important why did amaral not arrange one earlier on when all were there

PDL was a circus in 2007. The purpose of the in-depth rogs would have been to get as much information as possible so they had the actual facts before doing any reconstruction.

Dear Stuart,

As agreed during our visit to Leicester last week, and in order to provide an answer to the questions raised by various witnesses in the investigation into the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, regarding the possibility of carrying out a re-enactment on the site of the events, I shall inform you of the following:

1 - Regarding the arguido or formal suspect status of Gerald McCann and Kate McCann, it is not the PJ's competence to take the decision on the respective clearance. Thus, it is not possible to ensure the arguido status will be changed;

2 - There is no need for the witnesses to be accompanied by their children. For efficiency and celerity purposes, we indeed request that the children don't accompany their parents;

3 - The re-enactment, within the LOR, shall take place probably on May 15, 2008, between 5.30 p.m. and 11 p.m., thus covering the time period before dinner, dinner time and about an hour after having checked that the child had gone missing;

4 - A postponing of the re-enactment will only happen if the weather conditions are extremely bad, once the sites where most part of the events took place weren't exposed to such conditions. We also add the draft agenda to the proceedings, which we plan to be as follows:

- May 15 - In the morning - Arrival to Portugal of the participants in the proceedings;
- In the afternoon - The re-enactment
- May 16 - During the day - Preparation, by the PJ, of the records and documents of the proceedings which will be displayed, reviewed and signed by the participants;
- May 17 - In the morning or in the afternoon - Departure of the participants.

5 - The re-enactment will be carried out with the attendance of the nine holidaying friends, as well as, incidentally, any figurant considered to be necessary for a visualization of the events, i.e. a man carrying a child;

6 - The re-enactment site will be isolated, as much as possible, in order to preserve the security and the integrity of the proceedings. However, we can neither assure the evacuation of the population, nor guarantee the press won't interfere out of the security perimeter which will be established. Thus, we will do our best efforts to try and avoid picture taking by the press. However, we can not completely ensure that won't happen;

7 - The re-enactment will only turn out to be efficient if performed by the participants in the events, once the information provided by the same participants needs to be tested and efficiently compared on-site, and that can only be achieved by means of their own performances. Thus, the possibility of using actors has to be put aside;

8 - The request for the presence of witnesses was submitted through the LOR; the notification for the attendance of the arguidos falls under the competence of the Public Prosecutor's Office;

9 - If it is their wish, the witnesses can be assisted by the Foreign Office and, in the proceedings, also by a legal representative, subject to the consent of the Public Prosecutor's Office. Within the scope of the cooperation that has been taking place, the Leicestershire Police has already been invited to be present in the proceedings;

10 - If the conditions to make the re-enactments are achieved, the payments of participants' airfares and the stay costs will be subject of later evaluation;

11 - The PJ will be responsible for ensuring personal security for all the participants in the proceedings and will facilitate transfers from and to the airport, and from and to the proceedings. The PJ does not foresee any hostile environment or the occurrence of events able to put the participants' physical and psychological integrity at risk;

12 - The witnesses will be invited to participate in the re-enactment, but there are no suspicions over them regarding the commission of any criminal acts;

13 - The translation services of these inquiry proceedings will be provided by private officers of the PJ;

14 - The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.

We hope we have provided the answers to all the questions raised by the participants and, for logistics and case preparation purposes, we kindly request to be informed about the participants' respective answers until April 25, 2008.

Best regards,

Paulo Rebelo
CSIC

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 10:49:55 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #110 on: April 16, 2016, 10:48:00 PM »
PDL was a circus in 2007. The purpose of the in-depth rogs would have been to get as much information as possible so they had the actual facts before doing any reconstruction.

Dear Stuart,

As agreed during our visit to Leicester last week, and in order to provide an answer to the questions raised by various witnesses in the investigation into the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, regarding the possibility of carrying out a re-enactment on the site of the events, I shall inform you of the following:

1 - Regarding the arguido or formal suspect status of Gerald McCann and Kate McCann, it is not the PJ's competence to take the decision on the respective clearance. Thus, it is not possible to ensure the arguido status will be changed;

2 - There is no need for the witnesses to be accompanied by their children. For efficiency and celerity purposes, we indeed request that the children don't accompany their parents;

3 - The re-enactment, within the LOR, shall take place probably on May 15, 2008, between 5.30 p.m. and 11 p.m., thus covering the time period before dinner, dinner time and about an hour after having checked that the child had gone missing;

4 - A postponing of the re-enactment will only happen if the weather conditions are extremely bad, once the sites where most part of the events took place weren't exposed to such conditions. We also add the draft agenda to the proceedings, which we plan to be as follows:

- May 15 - In the morning - Arrival to Portugal of the participants in the proceedings;
- In the afternoon - The re-enactment
- May 16 - During the day - Preparation, by the PJ, of the records and documents of the proceedings which will be displayed, reviewed and signed by the participants;
- May 17 - In the morning or in the afternoon - Departure of the participants.

5 - The re-enactment will be carried out with the attendance of the nine holidaying friends, as well as, incidentally, any figurant considered to be necessary for a visualization of the events, i.e. a man carrying a child;

6 - The re-enactment site will be isolated, as much as possible, in order to preserve the security and the integrity of the proceedings. However, we can neither assure the evacuation of the population, nor guarantee the press won't interfere out of the security perimeter which will be established. Thus, we will do our best efforts to try and avoid picture taking by the press. However, we can not completely ensure that won't happen;

7 - The re-enactment will only turn out to be efficient if performed by the participants in the events, once the information provided by the same participants needs to be tested and efficiently compared on-site, and that can only be achieved by means of their own performances. Thus, the possibility of using actors has to be put aside;

8 - The request for the presence of witnesses was submitted through the LOR; the notification for the attendance of the arguidos falls under the competence of the Public Prosecutor's Office;

9 - If it is their wish, the witnesses can be assisted by the Foreign Office and, in the proceedings, also by a legal representative, subject to the consent of the Public Prosecutor's Office. Within the scope of the cooperation that has been taking place, the Leicestershire Police has already been invited to be present in the proceedings;

10 - If the conditions to make the re-enactments are achieved, the payments of participants' airfares and the stay costs will be subject of later evaluation;

11 - The PJ will be responsible for ensuring personal security for all the participants in the proceedings and will facilitate transfers from and to the airport, and from and to the proceedings. The PJ does not foresee any hostile environment or the occurrence of events able to put the participants' physical and psychological integrity at risk;

12 - The witnesses will be invited to participate in the re-enactment, but there are no suspicions over them regarding the commission of any criminal acts;

13 - The translation services of these inquiry proceedings will be provided by private officers of the PJ;

14 - The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.

We hope we have provided the answers to all the questions raised by the participants and, for logistics and case preparation purposes, we kindly request to be informed about the participants' respective answers until April 25, 2008.

Best regards,

Paulo Rebelo
CSIC


How much later after the events was that?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #111 on: April 16, 2016, 10:50:46 PM »

How much later after the events was that?

That's not important. They did in-depth rog interviews in the lead up to it.

14 - The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Admin

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #112 on: April 16, 2016, 10:53:47 PM »
if the reconstruction was so important why did amaral not arrange one earlier on when all were there

Amaral stated that he was thwarted in his attempts to organise a reconstruction early on because of the press circus.

Offline Carana

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #113 on: April 16, 2016, 10:55:32 PM »
That's not important. They did in-depth rog interviews in the lead up to it.

14 - The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.

Not important? Why wasn't this reconstruction done in the first few weeks? And why only the T9?

Some people on here are examining the OC /Tapas staff statements... shouldn't they have been involved as well?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #114 on: April 16, 2016, 10:59:17 PM »
Amaral stated that he was thwarted in his attempts to organise a reconstruction early on because of the press circus.
Perhaps if the PJ hadn't fed the press such sensationalist lies there would not have been a circus

Offline Carana

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #115 on: April 16, 2016, 11:00:11 PM »
Amaral stated that he was thwarted in his attempts to organise a reconstruction early on because of the press circus.

I'm aware of that. *Cough*.

Offline Admin

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #116 on: April 16, 2016, 11:01:58 PM »
14 - The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.

We hope we have provided the answers to all the questions raised by the participants and, for logistics and case preparation purposes, we kindly request to be informed about the participants' respective answers until April 25, 2008.

Best regards,

Paulo Rebelo
CSIC

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RE_ENACTMENT.htm

And we al know what happened next.

Offline Admin

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #117 on: April 16, 2016, 11:03:50 PM »
Not important? Why wasn't this reconstruction done in the first few weeks? And why only the T9?

Some people on here are examining the OC /Tapas staff statements... shouldn't they have been involved as well?

Totally agree.

Offline Carana

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #118 on: April 16, 2016, 11:07:00 PM »
And we al know what happened next.

Indeed. The McCanns agreed to return, the T7 and Jez weren't nuts about the idea. ROB mentioned that the date had already been leaked to the media (I'm not sure that I was ever able to verify that, but so many PT tabloid rags appeared and disappeared that links are hard to find).


ETA: One date was leaked, but then the dates were amended. I'm not sure I could find the link right now.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 11:16:59 PM by Carana »

Offline G-Unit

Re: Analysis of the timeline
« Reply #119 on: April 16, 2016, 11:13:51 PM »
Perhaps if the PJ hadn't fed the press such sensationalist lies there would not have been a circus

Oh, I think the circus had been guaranteed before the PJ said a word to anyone;

Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken."

Jon Corner; He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'

"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage."

Ms Renwick said: "Poor Kate and Gerry don't know where to turn. She's obviously been taken as she couldn't have gone out on her own and the shutters had been forced open."

"The shutters had been broken open and they've gone into the room and taken her."

Philomena McCann, said on 04 May: "Some people may ask why they left the children alone in the apartment but it was locked and they had a full view of the front door and they were checking every half hour."
 
   
"Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone," said Mr Healy.
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