Why was JB's use of cannabis, producing and supplying not pursued by EP?

[Holly Goodhead]

Opal in reply to your replies in Red above:

I haven't seen any evidence of the police taking notes at GH re the cannabis plants.  If they wanted evidence they would take photos and samples.  Job done.

MM states he first supplied JB with hemp seeds Jun/Jul '84 at GH.  He knew JB through JB's earlier relationship with Suzette Ford.  He did visit WHF and met June and NB.  I think this was in his capacity as a kitchen fitter.  Although the kitchen at WHF doesn't have much of the fitted kitchen about it!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3254

EP could have told JB to destory the plants but there would surely be some paperwork attached to this which would resurface post murders.

If BC hadn't got a rock solid alibi there's no doubt he would have gone down with JB.  It's clear from the DPP they struggle to fit the crime together.  Claiming JB shot SC once before battling with NB in the kitchen and then returning to shoot SC a second time.  This is at odds with the pathological evidence.

We don't know the extent of the cannabis (and other drugs) production, supply and use.  Or EP's drug policy at that time.  JM and SB both make reference to the drug squad in their statements.

EP didn't ask JB about his sex life.  Perhaps because he had a solicitor present and it would be off limits.  No solicitor present when JM and BC were interviewed hence they were free to ask what they wanted.

Yes I'm saying EP used the threat of drug related charges to coerce witnesses into testifying against JB along with selling them the idea HARD that JB was responsible.  Many of the witnesses such as JM and SB were young and impressionable.  JM was placed in isolation and without any legal representation.  They were from middle classish backgrounds not high crime families and therefore unfamiliar with the police/law and its machinations.  Lets be clear here I'm not saying they grassed JB up over his grass    alone.  I think EP brainwashed/groomed those that needed brainwashing/grooming into thinking JB was genuinely responsible. 

[Holly Goodhead]

When DI Miller interviewed MM he asks whether MM's lover, Christine Bacon, smokes grass.  When MM responded rarely DI Miller asks if it was this year:

DIM:  Does Christine smoke grass?

MM: No she rarely does.  (Lol No she rarely does  )

DIM:  Was that this year?

MM:  Early this year.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=lblfsf90dos80oc5emafd3hi17&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3258

Just off for CAL to quote about the police search of Christine Bacon's house.  I wouldn't mind betting EP found a quantity of cannabis whether it was there or not.   . Another witness brainwashed and groomed with the threat of drug related charges used if and when required maybe perhaps  &%+((£

[Holly Goodhead]

CAL page 297:

"At 6.30am on Monday, 9 September Matthew McDonald's girlfriend Christine Bacon was taken into custody.  While officers searched her home, Christine was interviewed by DI Miller at Witham.  Divorced and free to pursue a relationship with Matthew, the father of her youngest child, Christine knew surprisingly little about her lover's life.  She was unable to say whether he was still married, what work he did or even where he lived.

She was on firmer ground when discussing Jeremy, declaring that there 'wasn't a lot of love lost' between him and his family, and that he had often spoken of his parents favouring his sister 'a great deal financially'.  He resented the fact that he was adopted and had talked about ' what he could do if his parents weren't around', which included buying a 'nice fast car, running the business and not [having] all the hassle with his father'.  She believed him to be 'callous and aggressive enough' to have killed his family. Matthew hadn't spoken to him since Christmas, and Christine had sent the condolence card herself".   %£&)**#

[John]

Why didn't EP pursue the cannabis with JB during his police interviews?
- Why didn't EP press charges against JB over the cannabis?  They pressed charges over OCP.
- No mention of the cannabis is made in the background section of the CoA document.  Although OCP and JM's cheque fraud are mentioned.

Because police generally concentrate on the bigger picture which in this case was five murders.

By the way, what did he get for the Osea Caravan Park robbery?

[Opal]

. Taken from ‘Jeremy Bamber Campaign for Freedom’
Considering that police had uncovered that Jeremy was selling cannabis, which grew in his garden, to his acquaintances, none of these people were approached to give statements. Curiously, the same applies to Sheila Caffell, a former model and socialite. It appears that only three of her friends gave statements. I suggest that the lack of witnesses who knew either Jeremy or Sheila was brought about deliberately by the police. There are many action reports detailing visits to friends of both Jeremy and Sheila but which resulted in there being no statements taken. One friend of Sheila’s told that she called the police about how dangerous Sheila was after the arrest of Jeremy but her calls were not responded to; she was told the police already had all the information on Sheila they required. [2]  Another witness who knew Jeremy was angered that he had been arrested stating that he, “didn’t have the gumption to kill his family”[3] The large amount of statements are from people who knew very little of the Bamber’s at all, so it seems a large scale police operation provided little fruit.  The majority of statements being made up of fodder, from witnesses along the lines of: Mrs Bloggs who walked her dog near the farm and said good morning to June sometimes.

It sounds as though regarding the drugs the Police couldn't have framed JB or his friends. Not enough evidence.

CAL 67
Matthew McDonald slept with Suzette Ford. Jeremy really angry
Motive for blaming MM for murders a year later?

[Holly Goodhead]

. Taken from ‘Jeremy Bamber Campaign for Freedom’
Considering that police had uncovered that Jeremy was selling cannabis, which grew in his garden, to his acquaintances, none of these people were approached to give statements. Curiously, the same applies to Sheila Caffell, a former model and socialite. It appears that only three of her friends gave statements. I suggest that the lack of witnesses who knew either Jeremy or Sheila was brought about deliberately by the police. There are many action reports detailing visits to friends of both Jeremy and Sheila but which resulted in there being no statements taken. One friend of Sheila’s told that she called the police about how dangerous Sheila was after the arrest of Jeremy but her calls were not responded to; she was told the police already had all the information on Sheila they required. [2]  Another witness who knew Jeremy was angered that he had been arrested stating that he, “didn’t have the gumption to kill his family”[3] The large amount of statements are from people who knew very little of the Bamber’s at all, so it seems a large scale police operation provided little fruit.  The majority of statements being made up of fodder, from witnesses along the lines of: Mrs Bloggs who walked her dog near the farm and said good morning to June sometimes.

It sounds as though regarding the drugs the Police couldn't have framed JB or his friends. Not enough evidence.

CAL 67
Matthew McDonald slept with Suzette Ford. Jeremy really angry
Motive for blaming MM for murders a year later?

I don't find any of the websites claiming to support JB credible, reliable or relevant.  Consequently I dismiss most of the contnet.  Eg the claim you have highlighted above is clearly wrong since JM, SB and MM provided WS's about JB's involvement with drugs.  Not only did they provide WS's but they were prosecution witnesses at trial.

According to JM's WS the police or drug squad called at JB's cottage and looked at the cannabis plants.  JB was tipped off by a neighbour and as a result destroyed the plants.  If the police/drug squad called to look at the cannabis plants they would seize all the evidence they required for a successful prosecution.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=283.0;attach=1060

When DI Miller interviewed MM when he was suspected of being involved the police removed his cannabis plants from his address and sent them for analysis.  He was threatened as follows:

DI Miller:  "You realise that it is an offence to cultivate it and supply it and the plants taken from your address yesterday will be sent for analysis which may result in you being prosecuted under the misuse of drugs act".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1058.0;attach=3236

I will find the WS later re MM and SF's drunken fumble.  According to MM he was too drunk to rise to the occasion    Was JB seeing SF at the time?  Think the relationship was on and off.  I doubt JB was much bothered by it either way.  He was just a young guy having fun.  It seems this group of people connected to Sloppy Joes and Frog and Bean had brief flings with each other.  EG MM:  CB and SF.  JB: CB, SF, JM and LR.  LR: MW, CM, JB. 

MM - Matthew McDonald
CB - Christine Bacon
SF - Suzette Ford
LR - Liz Rimmington
CM - Charles Marsden

This sort of thing happens every day of every year all over the globe in liberal countries ie group of young people hang out with drink and drugs and have brief flings with members of the group.

If we say JB tried to stitch MM as he wanted revenge for his drunken fumble with SF we could just as well say JM wanted revenge for his one night stand with LR.  Or JB wanted revenge on his parents for disapproving of his relationship with SF.  I think JB was just a young guy having fun and wasn't that bothered about anything too heavy.  If  he was that into SF he would not have gone travelling again to NZ.

[Holly Goodhead]

It appears when MM was taken in for questioning he had cannabis on his person:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=4qb1cm76dk3k2eq5ivflrvgd93&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3274

DI Miller highlighted the fact it was a criminal offence. 

When JB was arrested 8th Sep at SC's flat he had some cannabis in a holdall which he immediately handed over to DCI Jones.  And yet as far as I can see it was not even mentioned during his police interviews held under caution.

I've often been puzzled about what is still held under pii. (I think I'm right in thinking info is still held under pii?) As I understand it PII usually involves info about witnesses.  I'm wondering if any info still held under pii relates to dropped charges over drug related offences against many of the prosecution witnesses?  Warrants, issued by a magistrates court, would be required to search properties.  This would require supporting evidence and would effectively amount to a paper trail EP would have no control over ie even if destroyed some sort of trail would exist from the magistrates court.  Perhaps explains anything still held under pii? 

There's firm evidence MM, JM and CB were involved with drugs.  This ranges from MM producing, JM supplying and all three using. 

There's anecdotal evidence that others associated with JB and JM were at least users.  Eg JM states when she received JB's tel calls 6th/7th Aug she had been smoking marijuana.  JM and SB were best friends and partners in crime.  Did SB also smoke cannabis and supply on campus?  In her WS she states she didn't like JB/JM bringing the bags of cannabis, ready for supply, into the house.  Was this really the case?  Also housemate James Richard was he a user/supplier?  JR was also an undergrad at Goldsmiths and attached to the army TA I assume or maybe the army sponsored his degree.  SB also said in her WS she didn't like drugs in the house as JR was attached to the army and if the drugs came to light (I assume on the premises?) he would get kicked out.  That doesn't sound logical.  How can he be responsible for his housemates? 

JM's WS's refers to a night out in Burnham after she, JB and BC, returned from Amsterdam on the drug run.  She states JB and BC were smoking cannabis but she and CM abstained as they had bad chests *cough*splutter*. JM used cannabis.  Was CM the odd man out?

JM talks about a day spent at Notting Hill Carnival. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLUI4lejno

Good grief certainly not the sort of venue one would expect to find recreational drugs 

JB and BC on the cannabis as usual.  No reason to think JM wasn't also smoking cannabis since by her own admission she was a user.  LR was with the group was she the odd one out? 

According to JM on 7th Sep she and LR left London and went to Colchester where they called on Malclom Waters to 'reveal JB's involvement'.  Malcolm Waters was the owner of Sloppy Joes and Frog and Bean wine bar.  He was at one time in a relationship with LR.  MW, LR, JB and Michael Deckers, MW's business partner, shared a house in the early 80's.  Was MW also a user/supplier?

[Holly Goodhead]

Because police generally concentrate on the bigger picture which in this case was five murders.

By the way, what did he get for the Osea Caravan Park robbery?

JB was charged and bailed over OCP but I don't believe the case was tried. 

[Opal]

Holly, I can't find any witness lists of those who were either Prosecution witnesses or Defence witnesses have you?

I've found the Defence witnesses in CAL's book mentioned, I'll have another look there for the prosecution witnesses.

Of course JB's group were into soft drugs, I said this ages ago, but I'm not sure what statements were used or who was called at the trial that proves EP framed them. I wouldn't think the police were worried about JB and his drug use at the time, but! I do think if by any chance he had got away with the murders EP would have been onto him as soon as he walked out of Court.

[Holly Goodhead]

Holly, I can't find any witness lists of those who were either Prosecution witnesses or Defence witnesses have you?

I've found the Defence witnesses in CAL's book mentioned, I'll have another look there for the prosecution witnesses.

Of course JB's group were into soft drugs, I said this ages ago, but I'm not sure what statements were used or who was called at the trial that proves EP framed them. I wouldn't think the police were worried about JB and his drug use at the time, but! I do think if by any chance he had got away with the murders EP would have been onto him as soon as he walked out of Court.

I was thinking the other day it would be good to see a list of all those who testified at trial. 

We know for sure the following were prosecution witnesses:

Julie Mugford
Susan Battersby
Liz Rimmington
Christine Bacon
Malcolm McDonald - not sure how damning his evidence was for JB?
James Richard
Malcolm Waters - did he give evidence at trial?  I'm not sure
Joanne Woad - I think her testimony was restricted to the time of phone calls

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear about what I'm suggesting.  All the above appear to be by and large law abiding citizens.  They are not hardened criminals familiar with the police and law.  I believe they would be easily intimidated by the police/interviews and EP used the drug angle to coerce witnesses into cooperating having convinced them JB was in fact guilty.

Under current law those in possession of cannabis can receive a prison sentence of up to 5 years.  In reality this is probably unlikely for a first time offender of previous good character but the threat of any sort of custodial sentence and criminal record would be enough to send many running for the hills. 

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing

If EP were not bothered why remove the plants from MM's and send them for analysis?  MM also tell of two friends who were prosecuted.

[Nicholas]

I don't find any of the websites claiming to support JB credible, reliable or relevant.  Consequently I dismiss most of the contnet.  Eg the claim you have highlighted above is clearly wrong since JM, SB and MM provided WS's about JB's involvement with drugs.  Not only did they provide WS's but they were prosecution witnesses at trial.

According to JM's WS the police or drug squad called at JB's cottage and looked at the cannabis plants.  JB was tipped off by a neighbour and as a result destroyed the plants.  If the police/drug squad called to look at the cannabis plants they would seize all the evidence they required for a successful prosecution.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=283.0;attach=1060

When DI Miller interviewed MM when he was suspected of being involved the police removed his cannabis plants from his address and sent them for analysis.  He was threatened as follows:

DI Miller:  "You realise that it is an offence to cultivate it and supply it and the plants taken from your address yesterday will be sent for analysis which may result in you being prosecuted under the misuse of drugs act".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1058.0;attach=3236

I will find the WS later re MM and SF's drunken fumble.  According to MM he was too drunk to rise to the occasio

Was MM prosecuted do you know and did you find his statement where it’s stated he and Suzette Ford had a ‘drunken fumble’ ?

[Nicholas]

Opal in reply to your replies in Red above:

I haven't seen any evidence of the police taking notes at GH re the cannabis plants.  If they wanted evidence they would take photos and samples.  Job done.

MM states he first supplied JB with hemp seeds Jun/Jul '84 at GH.  He knew JB through JB's earlier relationship with Suzette Ford.  He did visit WHF and met June and NB.  I think this was in his capacity as a kitchen fitter.  Although the kitchen at WHF doesn't have much of the fitted kitchen about it!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3254

EP could have told JB to destory the plants but there would surely be some paperwork attached to this which would resurface post murders.

If BC hadn't got a rock solid alibi there's no doubt he would have gone down with JB.  It's clear from the DPP they struggle to fit the crime together.  Claiming JB shot SC once before battling with NB in the kitchen and then returning to shoot SC a second time.  This is at odds with the pathological evidence.

We don't know the extent of the cannabis (and other drugs) production, supply and use.  Or EP's drug policy at that time.  JM and SB both make reference to the drug squad in their statements.

EP didn't ask JB about his sex life.  Perhaps because he had a solicitor present and it would be off limits.  No solicitor present when JM and BC were interviewed hence they were free to ask what they wanted.

Yes I'm saying EP used the threat of drug related charges to coerce witnesses into testifying against JB along with selling them the idea HARD that JB was responsible.  Many of the witnesses such as JM and SB were young and impressionable.  JM was placed in isolation and without any legal representation.  They were from middle classish backgrounds not high crime families and therefore unfamiliar with the police/law and its machinations.  Lets be clear here I'm not saying they grassed JB up over his grass    alone.  I think EP brainwashed/groomed those that needed brainwashing/grooming into thinking JB was genuinely responsible.

How long are you claiming your ‘brainwashing/grooming’ theory took Essex police to carry out?

[Nicholas]

When DI Miller interviewed MM he asks whether MM's lover, Christine Bacon, smokes grass.  When MM responded rarely DI Miller asks if it was this year:

DIM:  Does Christine smoke grass?

MM: No she rarely does.  (Lol No she rarely does  )

DIM:  Was that this year?

MM:  Early this year.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=lblfsf90dos80oc5emafd3hi17&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3258

Just off for CAL to quote about the police search of Christine Bacon's house.  I wouldn't mind betting EP found a quantity of cannabis whether it was there or not.   . Another witness brainwashed and groomed with the threat of drug related charges used if and when required maybe perhaps  &%+((£

 

[Nicholas]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=lblfsf90dos80oc5emafd3hi17&action=dlattach;topic=1057.0;attach=3258

Who does MM say Bamber tried to ‘chat up’ in the above ?

[Nicholas]

CAL page 297:

"At 6.30am on Monday, 9 September Matthew McDonald's girlfriend Christine Bacon was taken into custody.  While officers searched her home, Christine was interviewed by DI Miller at Witham.  Divorced and free to pursue a relationship with Matthew, the father of her youngest child, Christine knew surprisingly little about her lover's life.  She was unable to say whether he was still married, what work he did or even where he lived.

She was on firmer ground when discussing Jeremy, declaring that there 'wasn't a lot of love lost' between him and his family, and that he had often spoken of his parents favouring his sister 'a great deal financially'.  He resented the fact that he was adopted and had talked about ' what he could do if his parents weren't around', which included buying a 'nice fast car, running the business and not [having] all the hassle with his father'.  She believed him to be 'callous and aggressive enough' to have killed his family. Matthew hadn't spoken to him since Christmas, and Christine had sent the condolence card herself".   %£&)**#

Interesting