Cuddlecat and those claimed alerts.

[mercury]

How interestng...the dogs mean nothng but the discussions and apoligies are never endng ergo.......


 

Have fun

[Robittybob1]

Eddie barked beside the wrong cupboard door & Grime opened the wrong cupboard door first. What is the explanation for that?

What points in the video are confirming this please?

[Robittybob1]

You're missing the point Sadie.  Eddie was seeking out Cuddlecat and not the elusive scent he was tasked to find.

That is really trying to understand how the dog thinks. There were several times before where he just ran past CC without even turning his head.  So I tend to disagree with your hypothesis but even I have no idea of knowing how we could really understand what he is thinking.

[Eleanor]

Poor Martin Grime.  Never can he have thought that his trip to Praia da Luz would be analysed and found wanting to such a degree.

Will The Justice Forum's research be used in future court cases?  Is it already, even?

[Robittybob1]

That is really trying to understand how the dog thinks. There were several times before where he just ran past CC without even turning his head.  So I tend to disagree with your hypothesis but even I have no idea of knowing how we could really understand what he is thinking.

1:48 Eddie reaches into the canister to pick up CC to examine it.
1:49 The canister tips over and CC is lying on the floor the canister is moving.
1:49 Eddie stands back until he has determined whether Cuddle cat is alive or dead. His behaviour is like a dog that has been clawed by a cat at some in the past.  "Playing it safe".
1:51 Eddie is now sure that the cat is safe to pick up and carries it in order to smell it for cadaver odour, moving a few feet forward (as seen at other times with items of fabric).*
1:52 he has dropped CC and back to the task of finding cadaver odour elsewhere.
2:02 first pass of CC and Eddie is not even looking at it.
2:09 Second pass of CC and Eddie is not even looking at it.
2:11 off to another room continuing his search.

* I experimented with my own hands (being a bit smelly as I'm often handling dirty things) 

1.  I could smell my hands at rest.
2.  I could smell them having a stronger odour when I walked forward. 

The forward motion is like having a breeze lifting off the scent on the surface of my hands.  So I suggest carrying fabric objects forward is a technique Eddie has learned to improve his detection rate.

Conclusion: Eddie didn't play or indicate on Cuddle Cat.

[John]

The truth is that only those present know what went on behind the scenes.  For example, we don't know if Eddie had contact with Cuddlecat before he was seen lifting the toy out of the basket and throwing him across the floor, I certainly have my own suspicions about that one.  The point is that by the time Eddie came back into the lounge he was very aware of CC and of his scent.  When asked to then search, was the dog actually in tracker mode, had CC become the prey?

[Brietta]

The truth is that only those present know what went on behind the scenes.  For example, we don't know if Eddie had contact with Cuddlecat before he was seen lifting the toy out of the basket and throwing him across the floor, I certainly have my own suspicions about that one.  The point is that by the time Eddie came back into the lounge he was very aware of CC and of his scent.  When asked to then search, was the dog actually in tracker mode, had CC become the prey?

Just a thought, John.

If Eddie had alerted to a residual scent on clothing or Cuddle Cat in the villa, would it have been admissible in court?

It wasn't a random search in an effort to find a missing person as the earlier searches using the Portuguese dogs were.
It was a targeted search looking for evidence of Madeleine's death in places she had never been while in Luz. Apparently based on police suspicion of her parents.

Despite Madeleine's parents not being officially arguidos at the time of the search perhaps they should have been;  which would have made it appropriate for their lawyer to be in attendance at the villa.

I wonder if Robert Murat's lawyer was in attendance during the searches in Casa Liliana?  It could explain why edited copies of the search videos with a McCann connection were published on the internet and none of the searches of the Murat residence have ever seen the light of day.

[Carana]

1:48 Eddie reaches into the canister to pick up CC to examine it.
1:49 The canister tips over and CC is lying on the floor the canister is moving.
1:49 Eddie stands back until he has determined whether Cuddle cat is alive or dead. His behaviour is like a dog that has been clawed by a cat at some in the past.  "Playing it safe".
1:51 Eddie is now sure that the cat is safe to pick up and carries it in order to smell it for cadaver odour, moving a few feet forward (as seen at other times with items of fabric).*
1:52 he has dropped CC and back to the task of finding cadaver odour elsewhere.
2:02 first pass of CC and Eddie is not even looking at it.
2:09 Second pass of CC and Eddie is not even looking at it.
2:11 off to another room continuing his search.

* I experimented with my own hands (being a bit smelly as I'm often handling dirty things) 

1.  I could smell my hands at rest.
2.  I could smell them having a stronger odour when I walked forward. 

The forward motion is like having a breeze lifting off the scent on the surface of my hands.  So I suggest carrying fabric objects forward is a technique Eddie has learned to improve his detection rate.

Conclusion: Eddie didn't play or indicate on Cuddle Cat.

I still find a potentially logical explanation... Kate washed CC as it was smelly. Well, it would have been if she'd been clutching it in her sweaty hands for months.

Post-wash, it may well have smelled pleasant to humans, but the anaerobic decomposition of sweat and skin cells deep into the fabric may well have made Eddie alert. Ask anyone who's had to wear a cast over summer. The pong can be overwhelming, yet no one has died. It's still all a whiff of human decomp to the dog...

[Robittybob1]

I still find a potentially logical explanation... Kate washed CC as it was smelly. Well, it would have been if she'd been clutching it in her sweaty hands for months.

Post-wash, it may well have smelled pleasant to humans, but the anaerobic decomposition of sweat and skin cells deep into the fabric may well have made Eddie alert. Ask anyone who's had to wear a cast over summer. The pong can be overwhelming, yet no one has died. It's still all a whiff of human decomp to the dog...

I am feeling a bit frustrated because the effort I have had to put in to show that the Cuddle Cat taken from Kate , the washed one, is not the same one we see in this video, and still no one has seen the interesting situation that that switch created.
Had they not switched them the result might have been different, depending on the thoroughness of the laundering.

[Carana]

Just a thought, John.

If Eddie had alerted to a residual scent on clothing or Cuddle Cat in the villa, would it have been admissible in court?

It wasn't a random search in an effort to find a missing person as the earlier searches using the Portuguese dogs were.
It was a targeted search looking for evidence of Madeleine's death in places she had never been while in Luz. Apparently based on police suspicion of her parents.

Despite Madeleine's parents not being officially arguidos at the time of the search perhaps they should have been;  which would have made it appropriate for their lawyer to be in attendance at the villa.

I wonder if Robert Murat's lawyer was in attendance during the searches in Casa Liliana?  It could explain why edited copies of the search videos with a McCann connection were published on the internet and none of the searches of the Murat residence have ever seen the light of day.

That's a possibility. The other is that there was no point (from the point of view of trying to browbeat the parents into a confession) in showing what was presumably a lengthy section of film in which there were no alerts. It may well have contravened PT privacy laws as well, although I'm not sure of that in terms of a criminal investigation.

[Carana]

I am feeling a bit frustrated because the effort I have had to put in to show that the Cuddle Cat taken from Kate , the washed one, is not the same one we see in this video, and still no one has seen the interesting situation that that switch created.
Had they not switched them the result might have been different, depending on the thoroughness of the laundering.

I'll have to read back.... I can't see what you mean by a switch.

[Robittybob1]

That's a possibility. The other is that there was no point (from the point of view of trying to browbeat the parents into a confession) in showing what was presumably a lengthy section of film in which there were no alerts. It may well have contravened PT privacy laws as well, although I'm not sure of that in terms of a criminal investigation.

Good point for Kate speaks of being shown something.  She obviously believed it to be true but as she said "I had no explanation for it, but neither did they".  That is one of the most memorable lines in this drama.  A truly baffling situation for everyone.

[Angelo222]

I am feeling a bit frustrated because the effort I have had to put in to show that the Cuddle Cat taken from Kate , the washed one, is not the same one we see in this video, and still no one has seen the interesting situation that that switch created.
Had they not switched them the result might have been different, depending on the thoroughness of the laundering.

That's because there only ever was one Cuddlecat and not two as you suggested and thereafter failed to prove.

The toy would have had all sorts of human scent on it from tears, sweat or even saliva.  We know Eddie reacted to those things.

[Robittybob1]

That's because there only ever was one Cuddlecat and not two as you suggested and thereafter failed to prove.

The toy would have had all sorts of human scent on it from tears, sweat or even saliva.  We know Eddie reacted to those things.

I gave you the pictures of the two cuddle cats.  I would not accept them as being the same object.  I've shown there was a third person there during the filming who they never identified.  Maybe he could have made a statement verifying there was no switch.  We also saw the bifold doors were not returned to the same position both times Eddie checked the sideboard so Cuddle cat was not in the sideboard when the actual alert happened.
If you don't accept those findings I am doubly frustrated.   No one has come back to me and disputed my findings, but no one says they accepted them either (John got close though).
So really you are all ignoring the facts of the case.

[Eleanor]

I gave you the pictures of the two cuddle cats.  I would not accept them as being the same object.  I've shown there was a third person there during the filming who they never identified.  Maybe he could have made a statement verifying there was no switch.  We also saw the bifold doors were not returned to the same position both times Eddie checked the sideboard so Cuddle cat was not in the sideboard when the actual alert happened.
If you don't accept those findings I am doubly frustrated.   No one has come back to me and disputed my findings, but no one says they accepted them either (John got close though).
So really you are all ignoring the facts of the case.

No.  You are making up Facts.