Was the translation process a limiting factor in the Maddie case?

[G-Unit]

Members of the British Consuls staff had made themselves known to Drs McCann.
What's wrong with the direct approach?
Call the the Consul's office on the phone and say " 'ere John I am less than happy about the translation of the  statements I have given to the police what can be done?". Easy old stuff unease recorded, no breach of judicial secrecy no excess publicity and help being sought in the right place.

Quite. He spoke to these people often. He rang John Buck [the Ambassador] to complain about the way the investigation and search were being handled, but seems to have neglected to mention his and Kate's concerns about translation failings.

[Alfie]

Quite. He spoke to these people often. He rang John Buck [the Ambassador] to complain about the way the investigation and search were being handled, but seems to have neglected to mention his and Kate's concerns about translation failings.

Has John Buck given the public a full and complete narrative of every concern that was raised with him by the McCanns?

[G-Unit]

Has John Buck given the public a full and complete narrative of every concern that was raised with him by the McCanns?

If the matter was raised with him and he dealt with it there would have been no need to raise it again with CRG.

I'm sure the British Ambassador and Consul knew how the Portuguese system worked and would have been able to either reassure the McCanns or raise their concerns with the investigators if they agreed the statements were not compliant.

[Alfie]

If the matter was raised with him and he dealt with it there would have been no need to raise it again with CRG.

I'm sure the British Ambassador and Consul knew how the Portuguese system worked and would have been able to either reassure the McCanns or raise their concerns with the investigators if they agreed the statements were not compliant.

And you, as a member of the public, would expect full chapter and verse on any discussion and / or action that was or was not taken would you?

[stephen25000]

Now wasn't it Mr. Buck who didn't believe the Mccanns version of events ?

Mind you, he is far from unique on that.

[G-Unit]

And you, as a member of the public, would expect full chapter and verse on any discussion and / or action that was or was not taken would you?

One of the witnesses wrote a book with a stated aim;

My reason for writing it is simple: to give an account of the truth........as full a picture as it is possible for me to give.
Madeleine Kate McCann

In this truthful account the witness says she and her husband had concerns about the statements they gave to the investigation; namely the quality of the translations and the level of detail.

Despite being supported by a lot of diplomatic and police advisers she tells us they decided to share these concerns with people from a company called Control Risks Group who appeared [apparently uninvited] around 8 days after their daughter's disappearance.

I am not expecting any details of anything, but when someone writes a book with details that seem to make no sense I reserve the right to comment.

[Alfie]

One of the witnesses wrote a book with a stated aim;

My reason for writing it is simple: to give an account of the truth........as full a picture as it is possible for me to give.
Madeleine Kate McCann

In this truthful account the witness says she and her husband had concerns about the statements they gave to the investigation; namely the quality of the translations and the level of detail.

Despite being supported by a lot of diplomatic and police advisers she tells us they decided to share these concerns with people from a company called Control Risks Group who appeared [apparently uninvited] around 8 days after their daughter's disappearance.

I am not expecting any details of anything, but when someone writes a book with details that seem to make no sense I reserve the right to comment.

Why does voicing concerns to CRG make no sense to you?  Why does everyone have to think and behave they way you think they should?

[Alfie]

 

In her book Kate says;

We were concerned that parts of the statements we had made to the Portuguese police, especially on that first day, might have been lost in translation. We also felt that these accounts were not sufficiently thorough and wanted
to have every detail we could remember registered properly.

This is the reason she gives for making statements to CRG on 13th May.

On 4th May, however they were met at the police station by two members of the British Consular staff. The British Ambassador also arrived from Lisbon. When they left the police station Angela Morado, the proconsul was with them. Waiting in their apartment were John Buck, Bill Henderson, Liz Dow and Andy Bowes. All British Embassy or Consul staff. Then three family liaison officers arrived from LP. During the following days they saw the FLO's every day and were visited again by John Buck and Bill Henderson. Gerry spoke to John Buck and Margaret Beckett;

He pleaded with them both to try to improve the way the investigation and the search were being handled. We needed it to be far better than this, he told them.
[Madeleine]

If the McCanns were unhappy about their statements, why did they not seek advice from this long list of people who were available during that first week? Any one of those listed could have helped them to act on their concerns.

There you go - Gerry spoke to John Buck, nay pleaded with him to try and improve the way the investigation was being handled, witness statements are part of the investigation, you are clearly making something out of nothing as is your wont.

[Robittybob1]

When the statements are read back to the witness in English they have the opportunity to correct any incorrect entry or omission, that is the whole point of the process.  I must say that when I found myself in a similar position in Spain 13 years ago I did find the initial extradition hearing thoroughly confusing when even the lady translator couldn't translate some of the legal jargon into English.  Several months later I wasn't being asked to sign a statement but an extradition Order consenting to the process. That was correctly translated into English at the time but later was retranslated by the COPFS in Edinburgh to give a different meaning to that agreed in Madrid. 

I also found out later that the original extradition request was altered during translation after having been signed by the Solicitor General for Scotland.  These issues are currently the subject of an appeal to the Supreme Court in Scotland, I will be updating the relevant threads in due course.

But this step is missed out isn't it?  "When the statements are read back to the witness in English."  The statements are already in Portuguese so when they are "read" they can be read in Portuguese or else be translated back in oral English.  "they have the opportunity to correct any incorrect entry or omission" but they still don't have a version in English in front of them, just a corrected Portuguese version.
Your own experience shows up the confusion that can occur.
I still think there needed to be the plain English statement taken.  That then can be translated to Portuguese.  The witness should not be signing off the translated version for they would never be certain it was correctly translated.

[G-Unit]

Why does voicing concerns to CRG make no sense to you?  Why does everyone have to think and behave they way you think they should?

You appear to believe they behaved logically. Fine, our views on logical behaviour differ.

[Robittybob1]

You appear to believe they behaved logically. Fine, our views on logical behaviour differ.

What should they have done in your view?

[Alfie]

You appear to believe they behaved logically. Fine, our views on logical behaviour differ.

No, it is you who believes they should have behaved logically, a fine distinction.  In any case logic in this instance as far as your concerned is that they address their concerns about the investigation to John Buck.  You then kindly provide a cite in which Kate explains that that is exactly what they did do, but somehow you're still convinced "something's not quite right".  They can't win with you can they?

[G-Unit]

No, it is you who believes they should have behaved logically, a fine distinction.  In any case logic in this instance as far as your concerned is that they address their concerns about the investigation to John Buck.  You then kindly provide a cite in which Kate explains that that is exactly what they did do, but somehow you're still convinced "something's not quite right".  They can't win with you can they?

Wednesday 8th August it happened. Thursday 9th August;

Later, Angela and Cecilia Edwards, who was taking over from Bill Henderson as British consul,came over to the villa  to discuss the recent problems with the media and the way we had been treated by the police.
[Madeleine]

A discussion but no action reported.

Saturday 11th August;

Chief Inspector Sousa adds that Mr and Mrs McCann are not being considered as suspects following newspaper speculation that they were under suspicion.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id11.html

[Alfie]

Wednesday 8th August it happened. Thursday 9th August;

Later, Angela and Cecilia Edwards, who was taking over from Bill Henderson as British consul,came over to the villa  to discuss the recent problems with the media and the way we had been treated by the police.
[Madeleine]

A discussion but no action reported.

Saturday 11th August;

Chief Inspector Sousa adds that Mr and Mrs McCann are not being considered as suspects following newspaper speculation that they were under suspicion.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id11.html

I don't know what the above post is supposed to prove. 

[Robittybob1]

Wednesday 8th August it happened. Thursday 9th August;

Later, Angela and Cecilia Edwards, who was taking over from Bill Henderson as British consul,came over to the villa  to discuss the recent problems with the media and the way we had been treated by the police.
[Madeleine]

A discussion but no action reported.

Saturday 11th August;

Chief Inspector Sousa adds that Mr and Mrs McCann are not being considered as suspects following newspaper speculation that they were under suspicion.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id11.html

Is that extracts from the the "Kate McCann Diary"?   I felt this was not needing any translation "Asked if they could ever forgive the person who had taken Madeleine, Mr McCann said: "We don't know who's taken her, we don't know why they've taken her and we don't know what's happened to Madeleine, so it's very difficult to forgive in advance."  It doesn't read like a diary entry.