Vincent Tabak and the Murder of Joanna Yeates

[Leonora]

As for "confessions" and guilty pleas, I cannot help recalling the case of Simon Hall, who confessed after protesting his innocence for a number of years. From what I have read, most people accept his confession as proof of his guilt. It doesn't seem to occur to people that he might have been an innocent man who had a complete breakdown! !

Bristol, where Joanna Yeates lived, has a University with an Innocence Centre, one of whose first projects was to try to analyse the conviction of Simon Hall as a possible miscarriage of justice. This conviction included a great deal of highly questionable forensic and circumstantial evidence and contradictions that only the killer could have explained. Once Simon Hall confessed, I would have expected law students from Bristol to be competing for his attention to get him to explain how he got through the window that was too small for a man of his girth, and where the mysterious fibres came from that were found at the scene of the crime. But evidently the students from Bristol lost interest in Simon Hall, not even the eagle-eyed Daily Mail ever bothered to report his revelations about how he killed his aunt, so he himself lost interest in life and reportedly committed suicide.

Or has he too been given a new, secret identity, mrswah?

[Leonora]

Did Lyndsey Lennen explain the colour and fibre type??? (Shade).... dye composition, what manufacturer had use what dye, whether the dye colour was made purely for that particular company and whether or not it was distinctive...... Whether or not the particular dye colour had a patent.... What colour Number was this dye was... was it a Blue black... Midnight black.. ebony black...

Where they singular threads? What shape were these threads??? Was every microscopic detail given with regards the fibres on Joanna Yeates body and that they were defineatley from Dr Vincent Tabaks coat!!!

According to a Sky News tweet on day 7 of the trial, 18th October 2011, the Defence admitted the fibre evidence, allowing the prosecution to include it in their case without presenting any statements or witnesses testifying to it. As in Simon Hall's case, juries know very little about the statistical value of fibre evidence, because this varies so much and receives little publicity. If the fibres are very unusual indeed, and can be linked to the suspect but not to the victim, then fibres can be evidence. However, if the Bristol Ram pub is frequented by wearers of black coats from the same supplier as Vincent Tabak's, then fibres found on Joanna's body told the jury nothing, and then it is just as well for Mr Clegg's reputation that no expert witness was called to describe the statistical likelihood that these particular fibres linked the victim to the defendant.

http://live-news.sky.com/Event/Live_Updates_Vincent_Tabak_Trial3?Page=2

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leonora... you link doesn't work??

[Angelo222]

Bristol, where Joanna Yeates lived, has a University with an Innocence Centre, one of whose first projects was to try to analyse the conviction of Simon Hall as a possible miscarriage of justice. This conviction included a great deal of highly questionable forensic and circumstantial evidence and contradictions that only the killer could have explained. Once Simon Hall confessed, I would have expected law students from Bristol to be competing for his attention to get him to explain how he got through the window that was too small for a man of his girth, and where the mysterious fibres came from that were found at the scene of the crime. But evidently the students from Bristol lost interest in Simon Hall, not even the eagle-eyed Daily Mail ever bothered to report his revelations about how he killed his aunt, so he himself lost interest in life and reportedly committed suicide.

Or has he too been given a new, secret identity, mrswah?

Seems you haven't done your homework on the Hall case.  Firstly, it wasn't his aunt, they were not related.  Secondly, Simon Hall"s mother did chores for the elderly victim and had access to a key to her home which he knew about.  The smashed window was merely a ruse.

As for Vincent Tabak, the moment he admitted to manslaughter he was going to be convicted of something, that's a no brainer.

[Leonora]

leonora... you link doesn't work??

It works OK for me. Try:
http://live-news.sky.com/Event/Live_Updates_Vincent_Tabak_Trial3?Page=0
and then click on the next page.

[Leonora]

Seems you haven't done your homework on the Hall case.  Firstly, it wasn't his aunt, they were not related.  Secondly, Simon Hall"s mother did chores for the elderly victim and had access to a key to her home which he knew about.  The smashed window was merely a ruse.

As for Vincent Tabak, the moment he admitted to manslaughter he was going to be convicted of something, that's a no brainer.

It's several years since I read about the Simon Hall case, and I didn't bother to look up the exact details because they were not relevant to my arguments, which are perfectly valid. If Simon Hall really confessed, then he would have told the students that the broken window was a ruse as you claim, and would also have cleared up all the other inconsistencies - and this would have been reported, especially in The Daily Mail, which is not a keen supporter of innocence projects. As none of these things happened, we cannot really know whether he confessed or not, nor whether he really took his own life or someone else took it for him.

You certainly haven't done your homework, otherwise you would know from the posts on this thread that Joanna Yeates was not killed in her flat, there was no sound evidence at all against Vincent Tabak, and that his so-called confession to the so-called chaplain was fabricated in court by his own defence counsel. So the admission of guilt that you set so much store by is not believable, except by anyone whom you yourself call a "no brainer". Being a vulnerable foreigner in a prison full of violent criminals, he might possibly have been intimidated and coerced into standing trial. However, his failure to sack his lawyers, despite their extraordinary behaviour at his murder trial, makes it far more likely that he had undertaken to play this charade in return for a secret amnesty and a new identity.

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Were any pictures such as I've attached shown to the jury????  These show what wool fibres should look like..

Lyndsey Lennen I believe says the fibres are from Dr Vincent Tabaks.. WOOL COAT!!!!

Maybe analysis of these fibres needs doing again!!!  Are they defineatly Wool???

Along with the colour dye number used!!!!


Question:... were the fibres found on Joanna Yeates defineatly wool... and was Dr Vincent Tabak's coat definatley wool???

[Leonora]

Were any pictures such as I've attached shown to the jury????  These show what wool fibres should look like..

Lyndsey Lennen I believe says the fibres are from Dr Vincent Tabaks.. WOOL COAT!!!!

Maybe analysis of these fibres needs doing again!!!  Are they defineatly Wool???

Along with the colour dye number used!!!!


Question:... were the fibres found on Joanna Yeates defineatly wool... and was Dr Vincent Tabak's coat definatley wool???

Do you have any URL link linking Lindsay Lennen to these fibres? She told the court she was a body fluids specialist.

As far as I know, we have only the prosecuting counsel's word for the 11 fibres found on Joanna's body that he alleged could be matched to the fabric of the defendant's black coat. However, the judge told the jury that their verdict had to be based solely on the evidence they had heard. They did not hear any evidence from a witness under oath about these fibres, so I am sceptical about them. However, it is possible that the jury was shown pictures of fibres that no news media has bothered to report or reproduce.

[John]

It's several years since I read about the Simon Hall case, and I didn't bother to look up the exact details because they were not relevant to my arguments, which are perfectly valid. If Simon Hall really confessed, then he would have told the students that the broken window was a ruse as you claim, and would also have cleared up all the other inconsistencies - and this would have been reported, especially in The Daily Mail, which is not a keen supporter of innocence projects. As none of these things happened, we cannot really know whether he confessed or not, nor whether he really took his own life or someone else took it for him.

You certainly haven't done your homework, otherwise you would know from the posts on this thread that Joanna Yeates was not killed in her flat, there was no sound evidence at all against Vincent Tabak, and that his so-called confession to the so-called chaplain was fabricated in court by his own defence counsel. So the admission of guilt that you set so much store by is not believable, except by anyone whom you yourself call a "no brainer". Being a vulnerable foreigner in a prison full of violent criminals, he might possibly have been intimidated and coerced into standing trial. However, his failure to sack his lawyers, despite their extraordinary behaviour at his murder trial, makes it far more likely that he had undertaken to play this charade in return for a secret amnesty and a new identity.

I find your conspiracy speculations extremely worrying Leonora.  Simon Hall had no contact with the students or the Bristol based Innocence Project after his prison confession.  Fact is he did confess and he did commit suicide alone in his cell after several previous failed attempts so let's not stir up any more silliness.

The same applies to your claim suggesting Joanna Yeates was not killed in her flat.  Vincent Tabak tells a different story and unless you have very strong evidence to the contrary I suggest you stop posting personal opinion as fact.

[Angelo222]

I find your conspiracy speculations extremely worrying Leonora.  Simon Hall had no contact with the students or the Bristol based Innocence Project after his prison confession.  Fact is he did confess and he did commit suicide alone in his cell after several previous failed attempts so let's not stir up any more silliness.

The same applies to your claim suggesting Joanna Yeates was not killed in her flat.  Vincent Tabak tells a different story and unless you have very strong evidence to the contrary I suggest you stop posting personal opinion as fact.

I would think that after Tabak strangled Joanna he was on a mission to get her body out of there immediately because if she had been found at home suspicion would instantly land on the other tenants and the landlord.

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I would think that after Tabak strangled Joanna he was on a mission to get her body out of there immediately because if she had been found at home suspicion would instantly land on the other tenants and the landlord.

I still don't understand why moving the body from the flat would have been advantageous.. And again most victims are taken to the scene of the crime or left in situ..

The suspicion was on the Landlord and tenants in any case... that is why we are at this juncture.. They only ever seemed to have considered that building as the place where the perperteter came from....

And failed to DNA test her collegues and circle of friends....

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Or has he too been given a new, secret identity, mrswah?

Leonora... I do not wish to be disrespectful, but I can't see people who we wish to see the thread taking us seriously if we talk about things that cannot clearly be substanciated..

And wild notions which I find difficult to take on board personally, will not help discover the truth about the case.... Or more to the point get NEW readers to also question what happened to Dr Vincent Tabak... 

You would also need the Yeates family to be happy with this, and I can't see how they would or how Tanja would be happy to lose him...

I just like to see as much info in black and white, with evidence to support it... or video's to support it... maybe you are privy to information no-one else is.... but unless you link it or attach it... People will question the validity of what you are saying... And with very few people even ready to accept that Dr Vincent Tabak maybe innocent, the average Joe Bloggs will no take it seriously... And they will react like the did before  the trial had completed...

I question the difficulty people have had in communicating with Dr Vincent Tabak... But him being sent back to Holland if far more likely than him being asked to throw his life away on a lie to benefit the establishment...

I am not saying strange things do not occur, but find the paper trail or photo evidence to prove some of the things that you think may have happened.... As I say, this is only my opinion...



Why have things like... evidence etc not been sealed for 70 years, like they were in the Dr David Kelly inquiry.(Hutton)

[mrswah]

Bristol, where Joanna Yeates lived, has a University with an Innocence Centre, one of whose first projects was to try to analyse the conviction of Simon Hall as a possible miscarriage of justice. This conviction included a great deal of highly questionable forensic and circumstantial evidence and contradictions that only the killer could have explained. Once Simon Hall confessed, I would have expected law students from Bristol to be competing for his attention to get him to explain how he got through the window that was too small for a man of his girth, and where the mysterious fibres came from that were found at the scene of the crime. But evidently the students from Bristol lost interest in Simon Hall, not even the eagle-eyed Daily Mail ever bothered to report his revelations about how he killed his aunt, so he himself lost interest in life and reportedly committed suicide.

Or has he too been given a new, secret identity, mrswah?

Um no. He is dead---------

[Leonora]

I find your conspiracy speculations extremely worrying Leonora.  Simon Hall had no contact with the students or the Bristol based Innocence Project after his prison confession.  Fact is he did confess and he did commit suicide alone in his cell after several previous failed attempts so let's not stir up any more silliness.

The same applies to your claim suggesting Joanna Yeates was not killed in her flat.  Vincent Tabak tells a different story and unless you have very strong evidence to the contrary I suggest you stop posting personal opinion as fact.

I didn't anticipate that my mentioning Simon Hall merely in passing would stir up such a hornet's nest.

We have already discussed at some length the reasons why Joanna was probably not killed in her flat. If she had been, then the killer's DNA and her blood would have been deposited in her flat. If VT's DNA had been found in her flat, then it is inconceivable that the jury would not have been told about it, by an expert witness under oath. If, as you firmly believe, VT was the actual killer, then he must have killed her somewhere else. In that case, we really know nothing at all about the actual course of events.

Not only did the first persons to enter the flat fail to notice any blood stains, but nor was the jury told about any bloodstains revealed by more thorough forensic examination of the flat. Yet the pathologist's testimony makes it clear that Joanna did bleed quite profusely, mainly from her nose, before she died. Of course her killer might have cleaned up the bloodstains in the flat sufficiently to deceive her parents and the first police officers on the scene temporarily. Once again, if any bloodstains had been detected in the flat, then we may be sure that the jury would have been told about them.

I have therefore very solid grounds indeed for asserting that she was not killed in her flat. You do not seem to be very fastidious about distinguishing between "opinions" and reasoned inferences based objectively on accepted facts.

You write, "Vincent Tabak tells a different story". Of course he does - and obviously that is just what it is: a story. If he is the criminal that you and most other people are convinced he is, then there is no reason for you to believe anything he says, as no credence can be given to it. To base any argument on what he said can only be described as "silliness", unless it is supported by independent testimony from more credible witnesses. His claim that he killed Joanna in her flat is not, in fact, supported by any other evidence at all.

[Leonora]

I would think that after Tabak strangled Joanna he was on a mission to get her body out of there immediately because if she had been found at home suspicion would instantly land on the other tenants and the landlord.

There was only one person on whom "suspicion would instantly land" (to use your own words) if she had been found at home, and that was the boyfriend with whom she shared the flat. Neither the landlord nor any of the other tenants knew her well enough to have had any motive to kill Joanna, nor did any of them have a criminal record. Her boyfriend could hardly have failed to report a dead body, as he was the person who lived in the flat, so suspicion would "instantly" fall first on him, and thereafter on anyone else who knew Joanna well enough to have possible personal reasons for animosity towards her.

The early arrest of the landlord therefore constitutes a serious problem for you and everyone else with such facile answers to everything about this case. This is because we and you KNOW very well that the police NEVER had any case against the landlord. Therefore, whatever possible reasons the police may have felt they had for arresting him, they certainly had even better reasons for arresting the boyfriend. The precipitate arrest of the landlord is, therefore, irrefutable evidence of either incompetence on the part of the police, or a conspiracy, or some combination of the two.