Have the dog alerts any significance?

[stephen25000]

The point being, of course, that if the dogs are of no consequence, why go on, and on, and on....



.....on several different threads ? 

[Robittybob1]

.

Utter rubbish as usual
Eddie is trained to alert to the odour of decaying fflesh

There is no confirmation that this is what he did in PDL

But if he was trained as you say " to alert to the odour of decaying flesh", why wouldn't we expect anything else at PDL?

[Mr Gray]

But if he was trained as you say " to alert to the odour of decaying flesh", why wouldn't we expect anything else at PDL?

Because of the fact he has never been independently tested no one knows how accurate he is
Because according to the PJ he had to be led back several times to places he had not alerted to and eventually did alert to
Because Grime was unable to even say it was his opinion that Eddie had alerted to cadaver odour

[Robittybob1]

Because of the fact he has never been independently tested no one knows how accurate he is
Because according to the PJ he had to be led back several times to places he had not alerted to and eventually did alert to
Because Grime was unable to even say it was his opinion that Eddie had alerted to cadaver odour

Did Grime say he "was unable to even say it was his opinion that Eddie had alerted to cadaver odour" or are you just surmising that?

[Mr Gray]

Did Grime say he "was unable to even say it was his opinion that Eddie had alerted to cadaver odour" or are you just surmising that?

Grime said in his opinion the alert may be suggestive of cadaver odour

[ShiningInLuz]

Because of the fact he has never been independently tested no one knows how accurate he is
Because according to the PJ he had to be led back several times to places he had not alerted to and eventually did alert to
Because Grime was unable to even say it was his opinion that Eddie had alerted to cadaver odour

Does one actually know whether Eddie was independently tested?  The only info I have seen was 'accredited to ACPO standards', but I am not an expert on the relevant ACPO standards.

I can see no reason why the dog is expected to act like a laser-guided missile and immediately home in on a source.  Is there such a reason?

Is this post-Luz as per the thread title?  Or are we simply mired in yet another dog thread?

[Robittybob1]

Does one actually know whether Eddie was independently tested?  The only info I have seen was 'accredited to ACPO standards', but I am not an expert on the relevant ACPO standards.

I can see no reason why the dog is expected to act like a laser-guided missile and immediately home in on a source.  Is there such a reason?

Is this post-Luz as per the thread title?  Or are we simply mired in yet another dog thread?

Good points are being made in this thread, and I'd recommend it be allowed to continue please.

[Mr Gray]

Does one actually know whether Eddie was independently tested?  The only info I have seen was 'accredited to ACPO standards', but I am not an expert on the relevant ACPO standards.

I can see no reason why the dog is expected to act like a laser-guided missile and immediately home in on a source.  Is there such a reason?

Is this post-Luz as per the thread title?  Or are we simply mired in yet another dog thread?

If the dog is trained to alert to cadaver then you would expect Ito alert to cadaver
Not first time shown site ignore and then second time alert
That proves a level of unreliability

[Robittybob1]

If the dogs are trained to alert to cadaver odours and the dog is seen to alert, we would be reasonably safe in saying there was a scent in the area similar to what the dog thought was cadaver odour. 

[Robittybob1]

If the dog is trained to alert to cadaver then you would expect Ito alert to cadaver
Not first time shown site ignore and then second time alert
That proves a level of unreliability

Well obviously there was no physical cadaver but the residual odour from a cadaver that had been there some months before, and that cadaver may not have been deceased that long either so the odour was just beginning to become detectable.  In other words it is a testament to the dog's amazing ability to detect minute traces of the odour.  It may require more than one pass when the amount of cadaver odour molecules (whatever combination they are) is so low.

[faithlilly]

Yet again you have libelled Dr McCann by use of selective and curtailed quotes.  Please desist.



Sandra: But this is the first time that you give us a big interview not being arguidos, not being arguidos. Since then. erm. So now I feel free to ask you this directly. How can you explain the coincidence of the scent of cadaver found by British and not Portuguese dogs?

Kate: Sandra, maybe you should ask the judiciary because they have examined all evidence. I mean we are also Madeleine's mum and dad and we are desperate for people to help us find Madeleine which is why we are here today. The majority of people are inherently good and I believe the majority of people in Portugal are inherently good people and I am asking them if they will help us spread this message to that person or people...

Sandra: So you don't have an explanation for that?

Gerry: Ask the dogs Sandra.

Sandra: Ask the dogs? No Gerry. Now I feel free to ask you, don't you feel free to answer me?

Gerry: I can tell you that we have also looked at evidence about cadaver dogs and they are incredibly unreliable.

Sandra: Unreliable?

Gerry: Cadaver dogs, yes. That's what the evidence shows, if they are tested scientifically.
http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078056/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2032

Interesting that within the link you posted there's mention of the judge's comments on the Zapata case, a case where the alerts of the dogs were found to be 100% correct.

[Mr Gray]

The important point is that no evidence was found that Maddie died in the apartment
That is an undeniable fact

[stephen25000]

I suggest you ask Angelo or John on that.

It's called circumstantial.

The fact that the forensic results neither affirmed or dismissed the dogs indications, does not mean the dogs didn't react to the presence of a body in the apartment.

[sadie]

I suggest you ask Angelo or John on that.

It's called circumstantial.

The fact that the forensic results neither affirmed or dismissed the dogs indications, does not mean the dogs didn't react to the presence of a body in the apartment.

Only one thing to say to that stephen. 

The fact is that Keela had to have been shown the same places as Eddie alerted, to see if she alerted too, or NOT.

(i)  If she alerted, then it meant that they were both pointing to the dessicated blood from a living person .. NO CADAVAR
(ii)  If she did not alert then it could have meant that as Eddie had alerted, there could have been cadavescent odour there, but that had to be forensically checked out.   


She alerted to everything Eddie alerted to, meaning that they were both alerting to the dessicated blood of a living person, that is except for in one spot.   That was the area in front of the wardrobe in the main bedroom. 


There is a likely reason for the scent of cadavar odour there.  The man who had lived there before, died in hospital.    His personal possessions, including his pyjamas, would have been brought home. 

Where would they have been stored in such a small place?   The most likely place is within the wardrobe, or tucked away on the floor in front of the wardrobe.

The scent likely transferred from pyjamas to the area around.   Transference of caderavine odour is very common and the scent stays for years.


Because of this ... and the fact that there was NO forensic evidence what so ever, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that the odour came from a dead Madeleine.  None, Nada, zilch.


Just wishful incorrect thinking on Amarals behalf.   .... and likewise with some of you.

[stephen25000]

Only one thing to say to that stephen. 

The fact is that Keela had to have been shown the same places as Eddie alerted, to see if she alerted too, or NOT.

(i)  If she alerted, then it meant that they were both pointing to the dessicated blood from a living person .. NO CADAVAR
(ii)  If she did not alert then it could have meant that as Eddie had alerted, there could have been cadavescent odour there, but that had to be forensically checked out.   


She alerted to everything Eddie alerted to, meaning that they were both alerting to the dessicated blood of a living person, that is except for in one spot.   That was the area in front of the wardrobe in the main bedroom. 


There is a likely reason for the scent of cadavar odour there.  The man who had lived there before, died in hospital.    His personal possessions, including his pyjamas, would have been brought home. 

Where would they have been stored in such a small place?   The most likely place is within the wardrobe, or tucked away on the floor in front of the wardrobe.

The scent likely transferred from pyjamas to the area around.   Transference of caderavine odour is very common and the scent stays for years.


Because of this ... and the fact that there was NO forensic evidence what so ever, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that the odour came from a dead Madeleine.  None, Nada, zilch.


Just wishful incorrect thinking on Amarals behalf.   .... and likewise with some of you.

The absense of corroborating evidence, does not mean the dogs incorrectly alerted Sadie.

This is why you and others return to this, again and again.

Dogs don't lie, and they have no agenda.

Neither did Grime.