Gerry and Kate's reaction to sniffer dogs didnt make sense new ninemsn article

[Mr Gray]

SY were digging in PDL with dogs - they have found zero evidence of an alive Maddy who disappeared 10 years ago. Of course they say there's a possibility she is alive - they said the same about Kate Prout.

what it proves is taht the alerts are not evidence of death

[Carana]

Both dogs alerted behind the sofa. Any investigator worth anything after seeing the crime scene photos of the sofa can't miss the possible meaning of what happened to Madeleine that night.

Look at the crumpled curtain suggesting the sofa was quickly pushed back against the wall to cover up where the dogs later alerted.

This is not rocket science. It is common sense when you start to bring evidence together.

I don't find it rocket science to imagine that people had looked behind the sofa in case she was there then pushed it back.

What did Amaral's initial forensic team miss behind the sofa then?

[pathfinder73]

I don't find it rocket science to imagine that people had looked behind the sofa in case she was there then pushed it back.

What did Amaral's initial forensic team miss behind the sofa then?

They didn't use the dogs until later and dogs find evidence that human forensics can miss and that fact is proven.

That crumpled curtain at the crime scene revealed a glimpse and the later dog alerts confirmed those suspicions i.e. something happened behind that sofa IMO.

[sadie]

They didn't use the dogs until later and dogs find evidence that human forensics can miss and that fact is proven.

That crumpled curtain at the crime scene revealed a glimpse and the later dog alerts confirmed those suspicions i.e. something happened behind that sofa IMO.

Both Eddie and Keela alerted behind that sofa.

Therefore the alert was to dessicated blood from a living person.

How strange it would be if there were no spots of blood anywhere in an apartment as old as 5A


Soz you got it wrong, Pathfinder.

[Robittybob1]

Both Eddie and Keela alerted behind that sofa.

Therefore the alert was to dessicated blood from a living person.

How strange it would be if there were no spots of blood anywhere in an apartment as old as 5A


Soz you got it wrong, Pathfinder.

Therefore the alert was to desiccated blood from a bleeding person.  You couldn't tell from the dog alert alone if they were bleeding while dying, recently dead or survived the injury.

[G-Unit]

Both Eddie and Keela alerted behind that sofa.

Therefore the alert was to dessicated blood from a living person.

How strange it would be if there were no spots of blood anywhere in an apartment as old as 5A


Soz you got it wrong, Pathfinder.

If it's to be expected that spots of blood will be found you then have to explain why there was none in Murat's house, the other apartments and the McCann's villa.

[G-Unit]

Why?

Grime spent more time with his dogs in apartment 5a than he did in any other apartment, just as, in the nominal 'inspection' of 10 vehicles, the only vehicle of slightest interest to humans was the Renault Scenic with the find Madeleine stickers in the back.

You know, the only inspection of them all for which Grime wore a haz-mat suit.

The video of which he was handed for promotional purposes in his (further) free lance career.

Which he used to promote himself when he applied for the gig at Haut de la Garenne.

That accrued him the thick-end of £100,000 for about 12 weeks' work.

Are you suggesting that dessicated blood would have been found in the other apartments if only they had given Eddie more time in them? I think the scent is either there or it isn't, time isn't the issue.

Eddie was very interested and eager in 6A. He very quickly alerted in the main bedroom. Once he had done that a thorough inspection was needed. He then alerts behind the sofa. Keela is used next, and she also alerts behind the sofa.

Eddie was taken into the other apartments but he showed none of the eagerness or interest that he showed in 5A, so Keela wasn't used.

[Brietta]

There was perhaps a bit of an excuse back in 2007 for rumour and innuendo regarding discussion of Madeleine's blood, hair and body fluid not to mention the scent of her corpse in various places.
All before the forensic samples had been analysed and results obtained.

There is absolutely no excuse for perpetuating such ill informed innuendo on the threads of a forum dedicated to discussing facts.

The forensic samples have been analysed and the results of that analysis have been published.  That is the fact of the matter.

In my opinion it is well past time that members accepted that and move on, while considering that while Eddie may have barked in apartment five and for a forensically proven reason at the Renault door ... he also barked in Jersey and there is video evidence of him doing that too.

[ferryman]

They didn't use the dogs until later and dogs find evidence that human forensics can miss and that fact is proven.

That crumpled curtain at the crime scene revealed a glimpse and the later dog alerts confirmed those suspicions i.e. something happened behind that sofa IMO.

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain (286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found.

(John Lowe)

That curtain, you mean?

I would say that is indicative of an alerting error by Keela.

[pathfinder73]

Hairs matching MBM were found in the car boot where Keela alerted to blood. New forensic test results have not been released.

Conclusion
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm

[Benice]

Are you suggesting that dessicated blood would have been found in the other apartments if only they had given Eddie more time in them? I think the scent is either there or it isn't, time isn't the issue.

Eddie was very interested and eager in 6A. He very quickly alerted in the main bedroom. Once he had done that a thorough inspection was needed. He then alerts behind the sofa. Keela is used next, and she also alerts behind the sofa.

Eddie was taken into the other apartments but he showed none of the eagerness or interest that he showed in 5A, so Keela wasn't used.

According to Grime both dogs could detect blood deposited decades ago -  even if it was in such minute quantities that it could not be detected by the human eye or by forensic examination.

Anyone who believes that none of the thousands upon thousands of people who had spent their hols  in those apartments over so many years had ever shed a single drop of blood in them needs a reality check IMO

Incidentally, sniffer dogs would not be constantly alerting -  as they are not permanently on duty.   They go to work (or play as they see it ) only when commanded to by their owners - the rest of the time they behave like any other dogs.

IIRC Neither of the dogs made immediate alerts - they both spent some time searching around before they did alert.   

The difference in the amount of time spent in searching anything McCann-related -  compared to everything searched that was not McCann-related is undeniable - and is proved by the videos.   E.G. 30 secs or less spent on all the other cars.  A full  2 minutes spent on the clearly identifiable McCann car.

As I totally believe Grime's claim about his dogs ability to detect very old tiny residues -  then the reason why they did not alert in the other apartments and the other cars can only be time-related IMO.  I do not believe it was because there had never been any blood there in the first place as that is simply not possible. IMO.
AIMHO

[pathfinder73]

You don't understand. Keela only searches where Eddie has alerted. If Eddie doesn't alert to the cadaver scent he is trained to find then Keela is not used.

[ferryman]

You don't understand. Keela only searches where Eddie has alerted. If Eddie doesn't alert to the cadaver scent he is trained to find then Keela is not used.

Eddie (rip!) was trained to alert to blood or cadaver scent.

He had no mechanism for distinguishing between the two.

I presume you can prove that.

Disprove it.

[pathfinder73]

Eddie (rip!) was trained to alert to blood or cadaver scent.

He had no mechanism for distinguishing between the two.

All cadaver dogs alert to blood. If you can provide evidence of Eddie alerting in a missing person case who has turned up alive then I'm all ears?

[stephen25000]

Eddie (rip!) was trained to alert to blood or cadaver scent.

He had no mechanism for distinguishing between the two.

I presume you can prove that.

Disprove it.

How do you know Eddie, could not distinguish between the two ?