Gerry and Kate's reaction to sniffer dogs didnt make sense new ninemsn article

[John]

And the reason why these super efficient [and yes they were, i believe] dogs didn't alert was because they were rushed around the other apartments at an indecent pace  ... IMO

In an enclosed space it only takes a few minutes to test for scent so rushing around is irrelevant.

[ferryman]

Eddie did alert to dried blood from living humans though. Were the other apartments so super-clean that no deposits of blood from occupants over the years remained?

Of course they were, Misty  ....

[Mr Gray]

Good point fm but surely intelligence can also be evidence?  The Oxford Dictionary defines evidence in part as signs or indications of something and that is exactly what the dogs alerts are.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/evidence

In law, circumstantial evidence too is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact.  Consequently a cadaver dog alerting to material objects could be inferred as them having been in contact with cadaver scent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence

no....Harrison makes it quite clear that no inference can be drawn from the alerts....circumstantial evidence has evidentila value...therefore the alerts cannot be circunstantial evidence

[Mr Gray]

That was the point Sadie, the dogs didn't alert in any of the other apartments, just in 5a, which would rightly lead investigators to conclude they were dealing with a death contaminants in 5a.  But then we know a former owner of 5a did die in hospital and it is not beyond the bounds of possibilities that some of his clothing or personal effects were returned to his widow in 5a and stored in a cupboard in the bedroom where Eddie alerted.

As for examining 5a in minute detail compared to the other apartments there is a very simple reason. If a dog is taken into an apartment and doesn't react at all it is withdrawn.  If the dog becomes agitated and reacts then the handler knows to extent the search further. None of this is sinister, just tried and tested procedure which I'm sure ferryman will verify.

All the cars taken to the underground car park belonged to persons of interest in the case, they were all there for a reason.  I will agree however that Eddie showed little interest initially in the McCann's hire car and was called back several times.  In the end he did react and that reaction was corroborated by further forensic tests. The dog handler was at the time though totally ignorant of what the substance on the car's key fob was.  It later being determined that it was the blood of Gerry McCann.

tHis has been dealt with and explained several times.

The dog initially did not alert to anything in in 5a  untill repeatedly being brought back to spots by grime...this did not happen in the other apartments. THis was noted by the pj and is in the files as they found it strange the way the dogs behaved....not alerting and then alerting when repeatedly being brought back...

[Mr Gray]

The next point is that Maddie would have to have had an accident......died....and sufficient time elapsed for cadaver odour to develop....between 8.30 and 10....perhaps thats why SY dont see it as a viable scenario...the theory does not hold water

Having said that i think it was quite reasonable of grime to spend more time in 5a and call dogs back because if evidence was to be found thats where it would be. The fact is no evidence was found and its about time that was realised by posters here and we wouldnt still be talking about the alerts after 10 years

[Angelo222]

no....Harrison makes it quite clear that no inference can be drawn from the alerts....circumstantial evidence has evidentila value...therefore the alerts cannot be circunstantial evidence

No inference legally at the moment but they exist and could become very significant if a body is eventually found near the village.

[Mr Gray]

No inference legally at the moment but they exist and could become very significant if a body is eventually found near the village.

harrison says no inference...not no inference legally...your post is pure speculation. Even if a body was found i dont see how it could be linked to the alerts in 5a...can you.

there simply was not enough time for cadaver odour to develop....if a body is found it will be th body that is significant,,...not the alert

[Angelo222]

tHis has been dealt with and explained several times.

The dog initially did not alert to anything in in 5a  untill repeatedly being brought back to spots by grime...this did not happen in the other apartments. THis was noted by the pj and is in the files as they found it strange the way the dogs behaved....not alerting and then alerting when repeatedly being brought back...

That's a total misrepresentation of what occurred but to be expected.  Grime stated the dog immediately became agitated on entry to 5a indicating that there were scents of interest within the apartment.  Further investigation determined that there was.

[Angelo222]

harrison says no inference...not no inference legally...your post is pure speculation. Even if a body was found i dont see how it could be linked to the alerts in 5a...can you.

there simply was not enough time for cadaver odour to develop....if a body is found it will be th body that is significant,,...not the alert

A cadaver didn't need to lie in 5a for there to be contaminants there,..that's basic forensics.

[Angelo222]

The next point is that Maddie would have to have had an accident......died....and sufficient time elapsed for cadaver odour to develop....between 8.30 and 10....perhaps thats why SY dont see it as a viable scenario...the theory does not hold water

Having said that i think it was quite reasonable of grime to spend more time in 5a and call dogs back because if evidence was to be found thats where it would be. The fact is no evidence was found and its about time that was realised by posters here and we wouldnt still be talking about the alerts after 10 years

Maddie could have had a fatal fall and been carried off.  She didn't need to lie in 5a for there to be cadaver odour present.  Your inability to understand this is very worrying imo.

Try thinking outside the box with the blinkers off!     

[Mr Gray]

Maddie could have had a fatal fall and been carried off.  She didn't need to lie in 5a for there to be cadaver odour present.  Your inability to understand this is very worrying imo.

Try thinking outside the box with the blinkers off!     

Lets see how good you are at thinking outside the box
What was the accident
How long did it take for death to occur
When was the body moved

[G-Unit]

Eddie did alert to dried blood from living humans though. Were the other apartments so super-clean that no deposits of blood from occupants over the years remained?

Scientists can't explain how these dogs do what they do, so armchair detectives have no chance. I don't know why people find it so difficult to accept that there was something in 5A which caused the dogs to alert. There was nothing in Murat's house or any of the other apartments which triggered that response.

[Alice Purjorick]

Scientists can't explain how these dogs do what they do, so armchair detectives have no chance. I don't know why people find it so difficult to accept that there was something in 5A which caused the dogs to alert. There was nothing in Murat's house or any of the other apartments which triggered that response.

There is certainly alot of hooha about alerts supporters claim ain't worth diddlysquat.
If they ain't worth diddlysquat why the hooha?

Mr Harrisons comment about no evidential value is only expert opinion and may be challenged by another expert.

[stephen25000]

There is certainly alot of hooha about alerts supporters claim ain't worth diddlysquat.
If they ain't worth diddlysquat why the hooha?

Mr Harrisons comment about no evidential value is only expert opinion and may be challenged by another expert.

Indeed.

If they are no value, why are some so concerned by them.

Not hard to work out.

[Mr Gray]

Indeed.

If they are no value, why are some so concerned by them.

Not hard to work out.

it seems it is hard to work out even though Ive explained it several times...it is not the alerts themselves that are the concern but the lies told about them...

they are not evidence and no inference can be drawn from them according to the experts...those who think they are experts seem to think otherwise