The Earlier Reports Made about the case

[Leonora]

Also.... If A Plea management Case Hearing date is Fixed..... Shouldn't The Judge who deals with the case already be fixed too??

But Dr Vincent tabak did NOT have the same Judge from Cradle to Grave !!!!!

So which Judge heard all the "Pre Trial Hearing"???  Before we get the Introduction of Judge Field ????

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/pd-protocol/pd_protocol

The judge at the first two Crown Court hearings was Colman Treacy. Two other judges presided over two hearings in September.

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The judge at the first two Crown Court hearings was Colman Treacy. Two other judges presided over two hearings in September.

How does that even work leonora????  Doesn't the team of Judges preside before the final Judge is allocated to the case ????

But in those court centres there are teams of specialist judges, who are more readily able to handle cases which the assigned judge cannot continue with because of unexpected events; even at such courts, there must be no exception to the principle that one judge must handle all the pre-trial hearings until the case is assigned to another judge.

Not after the defendant apparently Pled Guilty

leonora help me here..... What the beep beep beep.... Happened  To Dr Vincent Tabak...

Every procedure seems to have been flouted ..... (IMO).... This gets worse the more I look at it... It is horrendous..

I in no way believe that Dr Vincent Tabak offered a voluntary plea of Guilty to Manslaughter knowing what I have thus found out....

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/pd-protocol/pd_protocol

[Leonora]

Another thing to check
 
Did everyone see this interpreter??

Maybe there is information somewhere as to the name of this Interpreter having sworn on oath!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jo-yeates-vincent-tabak-in-court-174288

The interpreter may have been so excited that she tripped on the steps up to the dock and uttered some expletives that were transmitted by the sound system. However, it is more probable that she was asked to take an oath that she would interpret truthfully and without embroidering. She was probably a certificated interpreter authorised to interpret in legal proceedings and translate documents for use in court, so her fees were probably paid in gold & silver rather than in base metal.

The proceedings of the magistrates court would probably have recorded the name of the interpreter.

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This case is "MENTAL"...... My heads about to explode !!!!

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Someone say something about 'The Plea And Case Management Hearing" being  given a date at a Magistrates Court... Please....

There plenty of you looking at this thread today.... Please speak....

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The judge at the first two Crown Court hearings was Colman Treacy. Two other judges presided over two hearings in September.

Well leonora.....


The Big Fat Question is???


What was this case really about... to have so many people involved  in what really was "A Simple Murder Case.... And NOT The Complex Crime Ann Reddrop has us believe by her involvement in this case... What were they trying to HIDE??????

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The first hearing for the giving of initial directions

 * At the first opportunity the assigned judge should hold a short hearing to give initial directions. The directions on
    this occasion might well include:

 * That there should be a full case management hearing on, or commencing on, a specified future date by which
    time the parties will be properly prepared for a meaningful hearing and the defence will have full instructions.

 * That the prosecution should provide an outline written statement of the prosecution case at least one week in
    advance of that case management hearing, outlining in simple terms:

 * The key facts on which it relies.

 * The key evidence by which the prosecution seeks to prove the facts.

 * The statement must be sufficient to permit the judge to understand the case and for the defence to appreciate
    the basic elements of its case against each defendant. The prosecution may be invited to highlight the key points
    of the case orally at the case management hearing by way of a short mini-opening. The outline statement should
    not be considered binding, but it will serve the essential purpose in telling the judge, and everyone else, what the
   case is really about and identifying the key issues.

 * That a core reading list and core bundle for the case management hearing should be delivered at least one week
    in advance.
Preliminary directions about disclosure: see paragraph 4.

So if they followed protocol.... No Mention of a Plea And management Hearing should have been mentioned at A Magistrates Court....

They would need a preliminary Hearing with The Judge of The Case to even put forward anything about A Plea And Case management Hearing....


If Ann Reddrop said in court that the date had been fixed for 29th April 2011  for A Plea and Case Management Hearing... Which Judge did she speak to????

Which Judge even got A look at this Case in 2 days ????

Ann explain to me please how this works ?????

Is this the more likely reason that Paul Cook did A runner ????? (IMO)....

Dr Vincent Tabak has only been charged on the Saturday 22nd January 2011... This is 2 days later ???? How does that work????



http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/criminal/pd-protocol/pd_protocol

[Leonora]

Someone say something about 'The Plea And Case Management Hearing" being  given a date at a Magistrates Court... Please....

There plenty of you looking at this thread today.... Please speak....

Like the prisoner charged with an offence, we have the right to remain silent!

I imagine that Anne Reddrop, in her role as public prosecutor, had the authority to propose a timetable, so that the defence could object to it in the magistrates court. What is more important is that the court should have had the authority to listen to a bail application. If the magistrate was not authorised to do this, then Vincent Tabak should have been brought at once before a court that did have the necessary authority to grant bail. We know that Ann Reddrop did have evidence that Joanna's death was murder, and that the evidence she claimed to have pointing to Vincent Tabak as the perpetrator was as derisory as that against Christopher Jefferies had been. This evidence should have been heard in a court competent to decide to release him on bail until such time as he decided to plead guilty, or more substantial evidence was found, or the CPS decided to drop the charge.

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Like the prisoner charged with an offence, we have the right to remain silent!

I imagine that Anne Reddrop, in her role as public prosecutor, had the authority to propose a timetable, so that the defence could object to it in the magistrates court. What is more important is that the court should have had the authority to listen to a bail application. If the magistrate was not authorised to do this, then Vincent Tabak should have been brought at once before a court that did have the necessary authority to grant bail. We know that Ann Reddrop did have evidence that Joanna's death was murder, and that the evidence she claimed to have pointing to Vincent Tabak as the perpetrator was as derisory as that against Christopher Jefferies had been. This evidence should have been heard in a court competent to decide to release him on bail until such time as he decided to plead guilty, or more substantial evidence was found, or the CPS decided to drop the charge.

I Imagine that Ann Reddrop had NO EVIDENCE AGAINST DR VINCENT TABAK WHATSOEVER,..  when he appeared in court on the 24th January 2011...

It takes until they have the charade that is 'The Old Bailey Hearing in special court room 2...  To get a Plea... Then they cobble a case together with "The Searches" from the Internet which have no value whatsoever....

Ok... If Ann's only Evidence against Dr Vincent Tabak... Is A Partial DNA sample..... and what ??? to get to charge ????

They cannot possibly have Translated Dr Vincent Tabak's Laptops by now..... Remember they would have needed a warrant to get access to Buro Happold laptops... Do you think Buro Happold immediatly gave them access to their computers on them arresting Dr Vincent Tabak??

I would say NO.... They'd already messed up with the landlord... So where did Ann get her Information against Dr Vincent Tabak on the 24th January 2011... To even state there would be a Plea and Management Hearing... on the 29th April 2011

A Plea to what exactly ANN!!!!

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Ok.... How does the song go.....


It's Just A little Bit of History repeating....

Now Ann....
Question....... did you think you could use the same trick again????? Well let me put this quote of yours to you first... Then I'll ask...

"The irony is that four of the defendants used the internet to pursue their criminal behaviour - but the police and I have used the internet to develop the cases against them."
The words of crown prosecutor Ann Reddrop, who was speaking outside Winchester Crown Court

Now Ann.... Don't be shy now..... Is this what you did to Dr Vincent Tabak ???? Answers on a postcard will not surfice I'm afraid.... I'd like a TV Interview please ....

The Irony is Ann "I" used The Internet to uncover what went on and the appauling treatment of Dr Vincent Tabak....(IMO)..

Was this a tried and tested theory when you came to Dr Vincent Tabak Ann???

Did you Know that you could use the Internet in such a way that Dr Vincent Tabak didn't stand a chance as you Manipulated The Law (IMO) .. to bring him to trial and have him jailed ?....  This is of course my opinion Ann...

Did you clap like a seal with glee when you decided to use "The Searches" Ann??

I can hear the noises right now.....  Do you want a Kipper Ann??? Or would an Ormer do you Ann??? They are extremely delicious.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11569283

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Ok.... How does the song go.....


It's Just A little Bit of History repeating....

Now Ann....
Question....... did you think you could use the same trick again????? Well let me put this quote of yours to you first... Then I'll ask...

Now Ann.... Don't be shy now..... Is this what you did to Dr Vincent Tabak ???? Answers on a postcard will not surfice I'm afraid.... I'd like a TV Interview please ....

The Irony is Ann "I" used The Internet to uncover what went on and the appauling treatment of Dr Vincent Tabak....(IMO)..

Was this a tried and tested theory when you came to Dr Vincent Tabak Ann???

Did you Know that you could use the Internet in such a way that Dr Vincent Tabak didn't stand a chance as you Manipulated The Law (IMO) .. to bring him to trial and have him jailed ?....  This is of course my opinion Ann...

Did you clap like a seal with glee when you decided to use "The Searches" Ann??

I can hear the noises right now.....  Do you want a Kipper Ann??? Or would an Ormer do you Ann??? They are extremely delicious.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11569283

Ok Ann..... When you went to Bristol magistrates Court Did you have sufficient Evidence against Dr Vincent Tabak??

Was this case against Dr Vincent Tabak made purely on "The Searches Ann??

When did you decide that you could use the INTERNET against Dr Vincent Tabak as you had done in your previous BIG Case ????

How much assistance did Avon and Somerset Police give ANN ???

Lets go back to the beinging Ann....

When you said I believe.... That it was late December 2010 That you were approached by The CPS... which lead to the planned arrest of Dr Vincent Tabak.....

You couldn't have searched Dr Vincent Tabak's computer by this time Ann....  Because apparentley according to the 566 timelines from the 1300 page document that The Prosecution brought to trial... Dr Vincent Tabak was using his laptop up and until about 1 week before his arrest......

So.... Was it the searches... which I for one moment do not believe belong to Dr Vincent Tabak....  Was it the searches that you thought would do the trick.... because lets face it Ann... You brought NO EVIDENCE to trial to substanciate that Dr Vincent Tabak killed Joanna Yeates .....

You had.... "The Manslaughter Plea" from the other odd hearing at court room 2 of The Old Bailey.. which is for special cases Ann... Not only that you managed to get it listed twice for two different types of hearings at 2 different court rooms on the same day at the same time at The Old Bailey.....

And Ann... lets not forget this "Manslaughter Plea".... A manslaughter Plea that wasn't entered into as being either 'Voluntary" or "Involuntary"... But that wasn't until May 2011.......

Now.... That has to be an achievement in itself.... (IMO).....

So someone help here before I start banging my head against the wall.....  How is this all possible ??????

Edit.... Oh yes Ann I forgot to ask..... Was it Direct Intent or Oblique Intent on Dr Vincent Tabak Intention to kill Joanna Yeates ..... ??

[Leonora]

I Imagine that Ann Reddrop had NO EVIDENCE AGAINST DR VINCENT TABAK WHATSOEVER,..  when he appeared in court on the 24th January 2011...

It takes until they have the charade that is 'The Old Bailey Hearing in special court room 2...  To get a Plea... Then they cobble a case together with "The Searches" from the Internet which have no value whatsoever....

Ok... If Ann's only Evidence against Dr Vincent Tabak... Is A Partial DNA sample..... and what ??? to get to charge ????

They cannot possibly have Translated Dr Vincent Tabak's Laptops by now..... Remember they would have needed a warrant to get access to Buro Happold laptops... Do you think Buro Happold immediatly gave them access to their computers on them arresting Dr Vincent Tabak??

I would say NO.... They'd already messed up with the landlord... So where did Ann get her Information against Dr Vincent Tabak on the 24th January 2011... To even state there would be a Plea and Management Hearing... on the 29th April 2011

A Plea to what exactly ANN!!!!

The police must have produced some evidence on which to charge Vincent Tabak and bring him before the magistrate - evidence which his own solicitor couldn't reject straightaway. We know what that evidence must have been:

1. The DNA on the body.

2. The fibres on the body - which in principle could have been matched to his black coat after he had been arrested and his lodgings ransacked.

3. The blood stains on the Renault Megane - which in principle could have been detected after he had been arrested and the vehicle examined by forensic scientists.

4. Various video clips from CCTV that were also shown at the trial.

The police wouldn't have used the tip-off from the crying girl, as she didn't exist, so that would have breached his human rights. They probably wouldn't even have attempted to produce any results from his laptop at that stage.

The police WOULD have pointed out that he was at the alleged scene without an alibi at the time they would claim the crime was committed.

We know that Mr Clegg could have demolished all this evidence in court if he had chosen to, and the mystery of the century is why he chose not to, and why his client endorsed him.

Why did Paul Cook do a runner? We can only speculate. My guesses are (1) evidence emerged that Vincent Tabak and Joanna Yeates had been romantically involved, and/or (2) Paul Cook was told to persuade his client to plead guilty.

I agree that Ann Reddrop was out of order in proposing a timetable for the plea & case management hearing in a court without the authority to consider it. Why did Paul Cook not tell her so?

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The police must have produced some evidence on which to charge Vincent Tabak and bring him before the magistrate - evidence which his own solicitor couldn't reject straightaway. We know what that evidence must have been:

1. The DNA on the body.

2. The fibres on the body - which in principle could have been matched to his black coat after he had been arrested and his lodgings ransacked.

3. The blood stains on the Renault Megane - which in principle could have been detected after he had been arrested and the vehicle examined by forensic scientists.

4. Various video clips from CCTV that were also shown at the trial.

The police wouldn't have used the tip-off from the crying girl, as she didn't exist, so that would have breached his human rights. They probably wouldn't even have attempted to produce any results from his laptop at that stage.

The police WOULD have pointed out that he was at the alleged scene without an alibi at the time they would claim the crime was committed.

We know that Mr Clegg could have demolished all this evidence in court if he had chosen to, and the mystery of the century is why he chose not to, and why his client endorsed him.

Why did Paul Cook do a runner? We can only speculate. My guesses are (1) evidence emerged that Vincent Tabak and Joanna Yeates had been romantically involved, and/or (2) Paul Cook was told to persuade his client to plead guilty.

I agree that Ann Reddrop was out of order in proposing a timetable for the plea & case management hearing in a court without the authority to consider it. Why did Paul Cook not tell her so?

The Elephants at it again......

They would not of had any of the above before they came to arrest him originally......

No Blood Stain In No Car that they hadn't tested !!!

No Fibres From No Coat That they hadn't tested

Partial DNA

No CCTV of Dr Vincent Tabak shopping.... How at this point would they be sure he had killed her on Friday 17th December 2010... If they hadn't already searched his laptop and phone records or even emails to place him at certain locations???? To know that apparently he had looked up Longwood Lane before the day she was found....


What on Earth did they arrest him on?????????

[Leonora]

"All this" is what the police and Ann Reddrop would have had by the time they all trouped into Bristol Mags. They wouldn't even have had to work during the weekend, and they'd have got the CCTV footage from Asda by then too, as he had told them about that excursion at Schiphol.

We know it is all fake, though I have been thinking that perhaps the pizza was introduced for no other reason than to justify the alleged online searches for rubbish collection dates - but that the undisclosed objects were not pizza cartons, as we fondly believed, but used condoms. Where do you discard your used condoms? Not in the WC, I hope? Did our serial killer pretend to be a dustman, and collect the rubbish from 44 Canynge Road to retrieve used condoms from it, before committing murdering his victim? Did Detective Superintendant Mark Saunder and DC Gareth Bevan suspect this?

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From Channel 4 News..

A 32 year old man suspected of murdering the bristol arcitect Joanna Yeates is being questioned by Police for a third day. It's thought the man being held is Vincent Tabak who lived in the flat next door to miss Yeates...
Live now to our correspondant darshna soni.. "Darshna:"

(Darshna speaks): Well we're expecting an announcement on this story from Avon and Somerset Police, very very shortly krishnan. We understand that detectives have less than an hour left to question Vincent Tabak, and so we are expecting to hear from the very very shortly..

 They are using the time that they do have left not just to question their suspect but also to continue gathering evidence. So throughout today we have seen officers here at the flat he lived next door to Joanna Yeates, we,ve seen officers going in and out collecting evidence. Today we saw Forensic teams in there they were coming out of the flat with big bags of belongings , they were carrying items from the flat in big brown bags, putting them into a car and taking them away.

(Krishna) Vincent Tabak's family have been speaking today..

(Darshna) Yes that's right, he is originally from Holland and he has siblings who still live there and his sister and his brother have been speaking to reporters there, and they told reporters that they believe, he is innocent, they say that he is a hard working Intelligent young man , we know that he as a PHD, is very well thought of in his field of work.

And his family have been defending him, they haven't wanted to come on camera, but they have spoken to reporters. Mr Tabak also has a number of friends here in Bristol and Bath where he settled 3 years ago. His friends have also rallyed round him, they have not wished to have come on camera, but they have also spoken of an Intelligent highly regarded young man. Who they say is very well liked by his colleagues.

Now he lived here in this flat next door to Joanna Yeates who went missing the week before christmas.. Her body was found on Christmas Day 3 miles from here . Mr Tabak's flat as I say is still being searched. We understand that his girlfriend who he lived with has also been speaking to Avon and Somerset Police. But that is routine in and investigation like this , you would expect that.

Now as I say we believe they have less than an hour left to question there suspect, so we should be getting an announcement very very shortly.
(Krishna) Darshna  Soni in Bristol

Oh I love a transcript.... Stops those little clips disappearing.... (IMO)...

This report is confusing and Interesting all in the same breath...  I'm like WOW... she gives us information she doesn't realise... But it's extremely helpful....

The extension that Avon and Somerset Police must have had was only 36 hours..... !!! I say this by simple calculations...

Channel 4 News airs at around 7:00pm

The report is on Saturday the 22nd January 2011....  36 hours before that is 7:00am on Thursday 20th January 2011... This is massively important .... (IMO)...

2. How long you can be held in custody

The police can hold you for up to 24 hours before they have to charge you with a crime or release you.

They can apply to hold you for up to 36 or 96 hours if you’re suspected of a serious crime, eg murder.

You can be held without charge for up to 14 days If you’re arrested under the Terrorism Act.

It would go with my theory that they originally charged him under "Joint Enterprise" or "Secondary Party"... My reason for this would be that they could have applied for an extension of 96 hours if it was 'Murder" !!! So why didn't they get that extention????

"They can still confidentley tell the press that they have "Charged Dr Vincent Tabak with Murder, they wouldn't be telling an untruth... By leaving out the possibility that it was 'Joint Enterprise" or " Secondary Party"...

At the time of the report... they are still scrabbling around for evidence... 'The Laptops have "NOT" come into play by this point ....(IMO)...

They literally have an hour left to charge with what evidence???? The supposed partial DNA...  And the Dr Vincent Tabak knowing that the car changed position.... (I am NOT BLAMING CJ) you need to remember what the Police had been saying at the time !!!! And I believe that Dr Vincent Tabak had also assited in moving CJ's car off the drive...

So... what was Dr Vincent Tabak Originally Charged under !!!!! Or should I emphasise was it as a Second Party to a Crime!! Therefore not allowing Avon and Somerset Police to apply for a 96 hour extension For Murder !!!!

Remember what the reporter repeats ...

Now as I say we believe they have less than an hour left to question there suspect, so we should be getting an announcement very very shortly.
(Krishna) Darshna  Soni in Bristol

So a 36 hour extension it is then..... !!!!

NB:... Custody could mean from the moment he's in hand cuffs or Police staiton.. that's were the hour is.... (IMO)..


Edit.... How many hours did they originally hold CJ for .... I'm sure it's around 60 but I can't find my old post... (Again... I am not implying anything about CJ... Only the Polices behaviour towards him)...

https://www.channel4.com/news/yeates-murder-police-hold-neighbour-for-questioning

https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/how-long-you-can-be-held-in-custody