For Those That Believe JB Guilty...

[adam]

Julies WS is in different parts -


Events after the massacre:

The eating out, drug buying, wind surfing, expensive hotels, trips around the country and abroad, clearing out WHF & Sheila's flat.

There is no point in Julie lying here. A lot of other people joined them for some of these. Hotel bookings can be checked and friends or relatives asked.

What Bamber did does not prove guilt or innocence anyway. Although Bamber's callous actions have come back to haunt him.

This part of her WS is 100% true.


Bamber's hatred & resentment towards his family:

This could be her word against Bamber's. But was not.

Bamber himself testified he had a very poor/non existent relationship with June.

He also called Sheila a 'nutter', 'looney', 'do lally' & 'pychotic depressive' on the massacre night. Saying they did not like each other and she had committed child abuse on the twins. Decades later saying he did not understand her illness.

There are also a lot of other people who said Bamber did not like his family or the raw deal he had. The facts back this up, Sheila living rent free in London, Bamber working long hours after reluctantly starting to work on the farm as a last resort.


The massacre plans:

This is again Julies word against Bamber's. However some of the things Julie said are backed up.

She said he planned to ride to WHF. This is backed up by the fact that the bike was brought over just before the massacre.

Julie also knew about the bible and kitchen fight. Which was not reported in the papers. And knew about the lockable from outside window.

The judge and appeal courts found it hard to understand Bamber's 3am call to Julie. Julie saying Bamber said 'he had not slept all night' and 'everything is going well'. When the police asked him about the call, he just said 'no comment'.

Julie also knew about the under insurance of WHF and the items inside.

Bamber had also mentioned to someone else about burning down WHF.


Julie's feelings:

Her feelings while things were evolving can only be changed by Julie herself, and cannot be disputed.

[adam]

These are things in Julie's WS which she would not have read in the following days newspapers. Not that she would have read them anyway -


There was a valuble pidgeon clock, valuable china and silver at WHF.

The outside doors were locked every night.

There was a downstairs window which latched shut when exiting.

There was a kitchen fight during the massacre.

The twins were shot in their sleep.

Sheila had a bible near her.

There was going to be a phone call from WHF to Bamber's cottage from MM.

There was a phone at WHF which had a last number redial record.

Bamber had started conversations at supper about fostering.

Sheila was shot last.

June was shot in her bed.

Everyone was asleep. Except Neville.

Sheila was shot under the chin.

[Holly Goodhead]

I have no real idea about David's claims of a 'forensic evidence breakthrough' but from posts it appears he has stolen Caroline's intellectual property (IP).  His soc reconstruction appears to be based on my IP.  David perhaps you should take to wearing a cricket box    

I'm about the same age as JM and in 1985 my life was similar too.  I had been dating a guy for about a year and can't think of anyone less likely to murder his family.  However if the police told me in 1985 he was responsible for murdering his family I may well have believed them over him as it would have been beyond my comprehension that the police were anything less than 100% trustworthy and competent despite at the same time studying Stanley Milgram's experiment 'obedience to authority' on my psychology course:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200203/the-man-who-shocked-the-world

[John]

Anyone who is prepared to dig deep enough can work out for themselves that Julie's  testimony may have been obtained not from Jeremy but from elsewhere. 


Rivlin QC told the jury: "The prosecution said Miss Mugford would have had to have had a convoluted mind to have made all this up. We say that she has."That Matthew (Mac-Donald) story is not only wrong in itself, but contains in it a number of details which can be proved to be untrue and which she can only have got from the police or Ann Eaton"

A nice attempt to try and discredit Julie but none of it proves what you claim.  Julie's recollection of what Jeremy Bamber told her does not have to correlate with the crime scene, they are mutually exclusive.  Jeremy Bamber could have said anything to Julie in an attempt to keep her on side, he told her that MacDonald was the hitman and we know that to be a fabrication too.

As far as Ann and Robert singing from the same hymn sheet as Julie, that is not in the least surprising. Stories have a habit of being repeated and especially so within families. It is not beyond the bounds of possibilities that the police themselves inadvertently let snippets of information get out.  Claiming that Julie was a complete liar is simply unjustified but then wholly expected from people who blindly support someone who was so intoxicated with greed that he murdered two sleeping children.

[John]

Okay I understand your position. You have invoked simple modal logic.
One of your premises appears to be that Sheila could not do this crime and remain unsullied. This premise is false, so you should use hard science as requested to prove Nevill did not phone Jeremy.

Obviously this crime can be replicated using actors to show how Sheila could pick up a loaded gun, go upstairs and shoot her mother, shoot her father in the mouth as he came upstairs to investigate, then when he is incapacitated swing the gun by the barrel to bludgeon him, reload the cartridge with her fingernails remote from the cartridge, and shoot again.
Then we can have her lying down and shooting herself twice, after realising the first shot missed her brain.

If necessary she can wash herself before her suicide.

All of which comprises such fantasy that it doesn't deserve a sensible reply.

[John]

No one's claiming Bamber gave Julie a detailed confession. He even said MM committed the massacre as a proxy.

Bamber would have spent more time telling Julie he was 'watertight' & there was 'nothing she could do'. That was when he wasn't talking to Brett Collins or other friends.

Julie said Sheila was on the bed when she was on the floor. So what ?

I don't know when Julie got information from AE. She was Bamber's girlfriend after the massacre & being whisked around England & Amsterdam after he dragged her over to WHF at 5am on the massacre morning. 

If AE suspected Bamber, she's not going to tell his girlfriend as it will alert Bamber.

Yes Julie did say Bamber cycled there. He brought the bike over to WHF just before the massacre. So she would not need AE to think up this lie.

Julie said the bible was on Sheila when it was next to her. So what ?

Supporters are just ignoring the several & huge amounts of disadvantages Julie would have in single handedly deciding to try to frame an innocent man. A month after the massacre.

But that fits with their agenda.  Discredit all and everyone as long as Bamber sets foot out of prison.

[John]

Just so we're clear.  Any posts claiming someone is a liar will be removed on sight.  Mods please note!

[Myster]

All of which comprises such fantasy that it doesn't deserve a sensible reply.

First step... audition for a severely-depressed, paranoid schizophrenic actress doped up with haloperidol who walks with a stiff gait and has never loaded a magazine or used an Anschutz before, then we're in business.

[John]

First step... audition for a severely-depressed, paranoid schizophrenic actress doped up with haloperidol who walks with a stiff gait and has never loaded a magazine or used an Anschutz before, then we're in business.

I should think so.  Had Sheila even managed to put the magazine in the rifle and engage a round I fear the plasterboard would have suffered more than the victims.

To be serious for a moment though, what really surprises me is that Jeremy Bamber only missed once so his shots must have been carefully aimed execution style and that takes some doing.  It just goes to show how callous and determined he really was.

[Samson]

I should think so.  Had Sheila even managed to put the magazine in the rifle and engage a round I fear the plasterboard would have suffered more than the victims.

To be serious for a moment though, what really surprises me is that Jeremy Bamber only missed once so his shots must have been carefully aimed execution style and that takes some doing.  It just goes to show how callous and determined he really was.

Sheila had a moving target just twice, first when she shot Nevill in the mouth as he came upstairs after hearing her shoot June. Then two in the left arm as he tried to escape. Her other three victims were asleep, and of cpourse she was stationary when shooting herself.
But thank you for posting your crime theory, it is always interesting John.

[John]

Sheila had a moving target just twice, first when she shot Nevill in the mouth as he came upstairs after hearing her shoot June. Then two in the left arm as he tried to escape. Her other three victims were asleep, and of cpourse she was stationary when shooting herself.
But thank you for posting your crime theory, it is always interesting John.

Sheila lacked so much dexterity and coordination she would have been lucky to get one shot off never mind twenty two.  Clearly had Sheila really threatened the family with a rifle Nevill would have shut her down instantly rather than look for a phone to call Jeremy as suggested by supporters.

[Samson]

Sheila lacked so much dexterity and coordination she would have been lucky to get one shot off never mind twenty two.  Clearly had Sheila really threatened the family with a rifle Nevill would have shut her down instantly rather than look for a phone to call Jeremy as suggested by supporters.

John:
I always invoke the duck/rabbit illusion to further these discussions.

I see duck you see rabbit, only one creature exists.

[jelgoon]

Id bet my house and all its contents that this case will never go back to the Ct of Appeal unless (c) occurred; and  the chances of that happening on her deathbed are probably one in a million as she told the truth.

[John]

Id bet my house and all its contents that this case will never go back to the Ct of Appeal unless (c) occurred; and  the chances of that happening on her deathbed are probably one in a million as she told the truth.

I tend to agree.   

[puglove]

Id bet my house and all its contents that this case will never go back to the Ct of Appeal unless (c) occurred; and  the chances of that happening on her deathbed are probably one in a million as she told the truth.

And I'd bet my hovel, my giant muckheap and my teetering mountain of empty Bacardi bottles that you're absolutely cock on, jelgoon!!