Author Topic: Lifting the shutters from the outside.  (Read 17656 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2019, 02:12:45 PM »
I think you will find Kate ,Gerry, Rachael and Amy Tierney stated the shutters were up.  Dianne would not have tested the shutters unless there was a reason to do so.


Presumably because she'd been told they had been lifted.
Obviously they were in the down position as she found it impossible to lift them more than a few inches without them jamming.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2019, 02:29:56 PM »

Presumably because she'd been told they had been lifted.
Obviously they were in the down position as she found it impossible to lift them more than a few inches without them jamming.
So there was a reason.
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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2019, 03:02:12 PM »
Imo the abductor opened the shutters from inside in an attempt to 'stage' the scene perhaps with the knowledge that Mrs Fenn had been the victim of an attempted robbery the week prior to the McCann's arrival:

When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2019, 06:45:00 PM »
So there was a reason.

She stated they twisted and got stuck as seen in the crime scene photo. What is hard to understand?
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2019, 09:23:32 PM »
She stated they twisted and got stuck as seen in the crime scene photo. What is hard to understand?
In the crime scene photos the shutter is not twisted. 
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2019, 11:30:27 AM »
It is in a stuck position. Police took photos of the crime scene - they don't tamper like others. Here's the shutter in the same position with the window closed so it was not tied as you suggested. The witness said it twisted and that would be reason for it to have stuck and also the reason Dianne could not raise it no further. It does bring into question Gerry's claim of raising it easily beforehand and any witness claims to have seen it in a fully raised position.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 11:34:12 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2019, 12:55:49 PM »
It is in a stuck position. Police took photos of the crime scene - they don't tamper like others. Here's the shutter in the same position with the window closed so it was not tied as you suggested. The witness said it twisted and that would be reason for it to have stuck and also the reason Dianne could not raise it no further. It does bring into question Gerry's claim of raising it easily beforehand and any witness claims to have seen it in a fully raised position.


Are you saying you can't have these shutters part way up?
Where would the jamb up have occurred?  To me the bottom edge of the shutter is parallel with the window sill, so it doesn't look like it was stuck in the guides.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 01:18:24 PM by Robittybob1 »
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2019, 02:32:58 PM »
The witness did it and she was there not you! She stated in her rog that they twisted and got stuck.

"However, she states that KATE had repeatedly commented that, on arriving at the bedroom, she had found the window of the room, with its shutter, both open. Yet, she [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed."

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2019, 03:26:13 PM »
The witness did it and she was there not you! She stated in her rog that they twisted and got stuck.

"However, she states that KATE had repeatedly commented that, on arriving at the bedroom, she had found the window of the room, with its shutter, both open. Yet, she [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed."

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

Where does it state they became twisted and got stuck?  We are talking about the shutters?!

The UK based forensic scientist, Dave Barclay, did not think they could be interfered with from outside without leaving some trace.

My theory involves the perp 'staging' the shutter/window from inside 5A.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2019, 05:50:45 PM »
As stated in a previous post:

4078    “And were you able to?”

 Reply    “I think, I think I got it up so far but it became sort of err twisted. But everybody was in such a panic really.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2019, 06:14:53 PM »
As stated in a previous post:

4078    “And were you able to?”

 Reply    “I think, I think I got it up so far but it became sort of err twisted. But everybody was in such a panic really.”

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Thanks.  I must have overlooked. 

There's no way someone could exit the window with a sleeping child and why would they when they could leave by the front door closing it behind? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2019, 06:34:59 PM »
Thanks.  I must have overlooked. 

There's no way someone could exit the window with a sleeping child and why would they when they could leave by the front door closing it behind?

I agree, the sill was too high for anyone to simply climb over it.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2019, 06:47:17 PM »
I agree, the sill was too high for anyone to simply climb over it.

Yes you can see PJ scientific officer, Alexandre Simas (AS) attempt it here at 44.24 in:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_ZdDTsFC2g
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2019, 09:01:18 PM »
Where does it state they became twisted and got stuck?  We are talking about the shutters?!

The UK based forensic scientist, Dave Barclay, did not think they could be interfered with from outside without leaving some trace.

My theory involves the perp 'staging' the shutter/window from inside 5A.
Well in your theory is it possible to raise the shutters to any desired height from the inside using the pull strap?
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Lifting the shutters from the outside.
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2019, 09:15:49 PM »
The witness did it and she was there not you! She stated in her rog that they twisted and got stuck.

"However, she states that KATE had repeatedly commented that, on arriving at the bedroom, she had found the window of the room, with its shutter, both open. Yet, she [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.
- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed."

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

Why is it written "Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed."?

I'm reading that as once she got around to the outside and lifted the shutters she couldn't reach inside to work the pull strap as the window was shut.  Does this mean Dianne touched the window to see if it would slide along if it was just shut but not locked.

I have always struggled to read and hear what Dianne did to the shutters and the fact that none of her fingerprints were found on the shutter or the window.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.