The investigation into the Smith family's sighting

[G-Unit]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027
*sniped*
The unnamed dad – spotted in the Praia da Luz resort by McCann family friend Jane Tanner at 9.15pm – was among a number of British witnesses who completed questionnaires for Leicestershire police six years ago.

He is understood to have provided a detailed description of his movements on the night, including the fact he had picked up his own two-year-old daughter from a crèche close to where Madeleine vanished.

But his ‘alibi’ was only looked at this year.
A source said: “He had been clear then that he had picked her up at around the time of the sighting but for whatever reason he was not eliminated as a suspect. The fact the details of the prime suspect have been known all along doesn’t look good.”

Following Madeleine’s disappearance, Leicestershire police were responsible for collating all UK-based inquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.

Was someone leaking to the Mail? Naughty! It seems not even the Mirror knows what LP did with those questionnaires.

Leicestershire Police yesterday refused to comment on the latest revelations.
A Scotland Yard spokesman said: “We are not giving a running commentary.”
It is not clear if the questionnaires were analysed by the British force or simply forwarded to Portugal.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027

[Alice Purjorick]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027
*sniped*
The unnamed dad – spotted in the Praia da Luz resort by McCann family friend Jane Tanner at 9.15pm – was among a number of British witnesses who completed questionnaires for Leicestershire police six years ago.

He is understood to have provided a detailed description of his movements on the night, including the fact he had picked up his own two-year-old daughter from a crèche close to where Madeleine vanished.

But his ‘alibi’ was only looked at this year.
A source said: “He had been clear then that he had picked her up at around the time of the sighting but for whatever reason he was not eliminated as a suspect. The fact the details of the prime suspect have been known all along doesn’t look good.”

Following Madeleine’s disappearance, Leicestershire police were responsible for collating all UK-based inquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.

The Mirror as a reliable source?
You're 'avin' a larf intcha ?

[misty]

Idle first random thoughts:
 We have been made aware by SY that they almost certainly believe Tannerman was an innocent holidaymaker so their timeline has moved on to the Smithman sighting. As it would appear the Tannerman sighting could possibly have been ruled out in 2007 (maybe even before the McCanns were made arguidos) what steps should the PJ have taken to further the investigation into the Smith family timeline & sighting?
How would this have been possible? Is there any evidence to suggest that the PJ had information relating to “Crecheman”. As the Drs McCann were the last to see Madeleine that was sufficient for them to be made arguidos anyway as I understand what the PJ said.
What information did the PJ have? It would seem:
A sighting, by Jane Tanner, of a man carrying a child west to east .The description isn’t much cop as she could only see him in profile and from the rear.
he gave her the impression that he was not a tourist, because he was very "warmly dressed".

What we do know is that none of the Smiths said they could recognise the man if they saw him again. However, MS said he was definitely not Murat.
True. The Smiths said on 26th May they would not be able to recognise the man. The sighting was approximately 45 minutes after the Tanner sighting and only about 600m away.
Urged, he states that the individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing.
 After the McCanns returned home in September, MS reported that he was 60-80% sure that the man he saw was Gerry McCann, based on the way he was carrying the child. He maintained this stance in Jan 2008 in another statement -Processos, Volume XVI, pg 4134 to 4139.
The PJ could not obtain any efits from the Smiths, neither did they ever issue to the Portuguese public a description of the man seen by the Smiths.
Pages 4134 through 4139 say a little more than that. The PP does not make appeals to the public.

My issue is this:-
 If Tannerman had been ruled out prior to September 2007, this potential abductor who could not be recognised by the Smiths was still out there somewhere. If he was an innocent tourist then how did the PJ intend to find him & rule him out?
How would Tannerman be ruled out except on the basis that the PJ did not find it convincing? How would the PP convey to the Portuguese public what to look for? The descriptions are sketchy at best with no facial characteristics.
“Look for a bloke about 28 to 40 with longish brown hair wearing cut off chinos a brown jacket and loafers”. Most of the transient population (tourists to you) probably fit that bill.
If Tannerman had been ruled out after Martin Smith provided his 60/80% identification of Gerry (which could be easily challenged using independent witness statements regarding Gerry's whereabouts & the clothing he was wearing) how would Smith's reliability as a witness be viewed were another person to be located as the potential Smithman, either innocent or a potential abductor?

Tannerman wasn’t ruled out til 2013 so it belongs in the bucket marked “If a sewing machine had bigger wheels it might be a car”

1. The PJ (under duress) DID release a description of Tannerman, so why not Smithman?
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id30.htm
Part 4: The PJ make the first public appeal, 25 May 2007

Detectives issued a description of a man seen on the night the four-year-old went missing in the resort of Praia Da Luz in the Algarve. Officers said the man was "carrying a child or an object that could have been taken as a child".

The man is said to be white, aged 35-40, 5ft 10in tall, medium build with hair that was short on top. He was wearing a dark jacket, beige or golden long trousers and dark shoes. At a news conference, Ch Insp Olegario de Sousa urged the man or anyone who had seen him to come forward.
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2. PP does make appeals - see above

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3. They could & they did, however sketchy at the time.

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4. Whenever Tannerman was ruled out (fresh evidence) how would the PJ have attempted to identify Smithman given that one of the witnesses had said he may have been GM? In the circumstances, who was responsible for trying to progress a criminal investigation, especially in light of the recent SC ruling? Could it not be said that the Portuguese authorities made precious little attempt to validate the abduction theory & were happy for it to remain on record that the McCanns had failed to demonstrate their innocence in 2008?
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[misty]

The Mirror as a reliable source?
You're 'avin' a larf intcha ?

Where else do you expect me to get a cite from regarding information not released from the PJ files?

[G-Unit]

Where else do you expect me to get a cite from regarding information not released from the PJ files?

The Mirror seems to have found one fact; Leicestershire police issued questionnaires which people filled in and returned. The rest of the story is speculation.

You have no evidence that the questionnaires were sent to the PJ and then withheld.

There is information about what was officially withheld by the Portuguese and at the request of the British. No questionnaires mentioned.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm

[misty]

The Mirror seems to have found one fact; Leicestershire police issued questionnaires which people filled in and returned. The rest of the story is speculation.

You have no evidence that the questionnaires were sent to the PJ and then withheld.

There is information about what was officially withheld by the Portuguese and at the request of the British. No questionnaires mentioned.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm

So the fact that there is no mention in the files of the questionnaires or the people who supposedly completed th them means the PJ didn't see them - is that what you're saying?

[stephen25000]

The Mirror as a reliable source?
You're 'avin' a larf intcha ?

The Mirror being the former home of Tony 'Sardine Muncher' Parsons.

Has that paper ever criticized the Mccann's ?

[jassi]

So the fact that there is no mention in the files of the questionnaires or the people who supposedly completed th them means the PJ didn't see them - is that what you're saying?

If the Portuguese authorities had received these documents, why would they be excluded from the released files ?
Even if some were held back for some reason, should the remainder not be there ?

[misty]

If the Portuguese authorities had received these documents, why would they be excluded from the released files ?
Even if some were held back for some reason, should the remainder not be there ?

Would you provide a link to any original first-time statements taken by UK police other than Jez Wilkins & the 2 attributed to the Gaspars, please?

[Brietta]

So the fact that there is no mention in the files of the questionnaires or the people who supposedly completed th them means the PJ didn't see them - is that what you're saying?

Was it really such an insurmountable task for someone coordinating the incoming information to notice a gap and to take steps to fill it?

X number of children in night creche
X number of parent interviews to be conducted or
X number of questionnaires distributed to parents and
X number of questionnaires returned from parents

These were people who had been out and about in the streets of Luz ... relevant times? ... relevant places? ... maybe relevant information.

Then not all contingencies were covered were they?

The Moyes who lived in an apartment above the McCanns and who were out and about in relevant times and relevant places ... were also ignored by the initial investigators.  Examples of real shoddy work, I would opine.

[misty]

Was it really such an insurmountable task for someone coordinating the incoming information to notice a gap and to take steps to fill it?

X number of children in night creche
X number of parent interviews to be conducted or
X number of questionnaires distributed to parents and
X number of questionnaires returned from parents

These were people who had been out and about in the streets of Luz ... relevant times? ... relevant places? ... maybe relevant information.

Then not all contingencies were covered were they?

The Moyes who lived in an apartment above the McCanns and who were out and about in relevant times and relevant places ... were also ignored by the initial investigators.  Examples of real shoddy work, I would opine.

Maybe it was considered unnecessary because the direction of the case had already been determined.

[jassi]

Would you provide a link to any original first-time statements taken by UK police other than Jez Wilkins & the 2 attributed to the Gaspars, please?

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf

Towards bottom of page 8 -

"The force also developed and used a questionnaire for all UK citizens who were resident in the holiday resort  around the time Madeleine went missing. Questionnaires were completed in relation to 599 individuals."

[misty]

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf

Towards bottom of page 8 -

"The force also developed and used a questionnaire for all UK citizens who were resident in the holiday resort  around the time Madeleine went missing. Questionnaires were completed in relation to 599 individuals."

So proof the questionnaires were used for all UK holidaymakers. Thank you, Any trace of even 1 out of 599 completed questionnaires in the released PJ files?

[jassi]

So proof the questionnaires were used for all UK holidaymakers. Thank you, Any trace of even 1 out of 599 completed questionnaire in the released PJ files?

Not that I'm aware.

There is no mention about  whether or not they were sent them to Portugal.

[G-Unit]

So the fact that there is no mention in the files of the questionnaires or the people who supposedly completed th them means the PJ didn't see them - is that what you're saying?

That is what the evidence says, not me.