General discussion about the latest news (not search related)

[stephen25000]

WOW!  Were they responsible for the 'swinging' stories et al which were making the headlines at the time? you don't say.

I've no idea.

So where did you think those stories come from ?

Besides, as you well know, I was referring to the self-imposed  damage caused by their '....parenting skills'.

[Brietta]

I've no idea.

So where did you think those stories come from ?

Besides, as you well know, I was referring to the self-imposed  damage caused by their '....parenting skills'.

Police leaks, gossip and clash of cultures close in on McCanns
Portuguese hostility towards the McCanns grows with every twist, reports CHRISTINA LAMB in Praia da Luz.
•   The Press
•   18 Sep 2007


The two men in dark suits coming out of the Portimao restaurant adjusted their ties and jackets after what had clearly been a satisfying Friday lunch.

Guilhermino Encarnacao and his deputy, Goncalo Amaral, are the two Portuguese detectives heading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann more than four months ago.

But their relaxed appearance belies the weight of international scrutiny their investigation is under— and the role their team has played in contributing to a propaganda war, with Gerry and Kate McCann in their sights.

Officially, Encarnacao was quick to condemn the press coverage.
‘‘There’s been far too much speculation in the press,’’ he said.

However, Jose Manuel Oliveira, who has covered the case since the beginning for the respected daily Diario de Noticias, said:
‘‘Who is responsible for all the information and counterinformation? It’s the police themselves.’’

Under Portuguese secrecy laws, police are forbidden from revealing details of an investigation.

Yet, as they struggle to cope with the whirlwind generated by ‘‘Caso Maddie’’, they have used a series of daily leaks to Portuguese journalists about supposed forensic evidence, diary extracts and tapped phone calls to insinuate that the couple were involved in the disappearance of their own daughter.
https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-press/20070918/281921653668753

[G-Unit]

The upshot being that for whatever reason (leaks, gossip, clash of cultures) the McCanns were not well thought of in Portugal before Amaral had even thought of writing a book.

[stephen25000]

Police leaks, gossip and clash of cultures close in on McCanns
Portuguese hostility towards the McCanns grows with every twist, reports CHRISTINA LAMB in Praia da Luz.
•   The Press
•   18 Sep 2007


The two men in dark suits coming out of the Portimao restaurant adjusted their ties and jackets after what had clearly been a satisfying Friday lunch.

Guilhermino Encarnacao and his deputy, Goncalo Amaral, are the two Portuguese detectives heading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann more than four months ago.

But their relaxed appearance belies the weight of international scrutiny their investigation is under— and the role their team has played in contributing to a propaganda war, with Gerry and Kate McCann in their sights.

Officially, Encarnacao was quick to condemn the press coverage.
‘‘There’s been far too much speculation in the press,’’ he said.

However, Jose Manuel Oliveira, who has covered the case since the beginning for the respected daily Diario de Noticias, said:
‘‘Who is responsible for all the information and counterinformation? It’s the police themselves.’’

Under Portuguese secrecy laws, police are forbidden from revealing details of an investigation.

Yet, as they struggle to cope with the whirlwind generated by ‘‘Caso Maddie’’, they have used a series of daily leaks to Portuguese journalists about supposed forensic evidence, diary extracts and tapped phone calls to insinuate that the couple were involved in the disappearance of their own daughter.
https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-press/20070918/281921653668753

Both sides leaked regularly, and we have been through all this before.

Have you forgotten the undeniable hostility towards the Portuguese, especially Amaral and the PJ in most sections of the UK press ?

Likewise , the well nigh bending over backwards to support the McCann's since the litigation against the Express ?

[Robittybob1]

This must be one of the earliest news reports
"Tapas for two ... then parents' nightmare began"  https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/05/world.sandralaville

Interesting bit:  "Their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, lay undisturbed in their cots beside the bed, making the absence of the child they call Maddy all the more haunting. Nothing appeared to have been stolen from the room, but the shutters seemed to have been forced, the window was open and the main door unlocked, according to the family."

The main door unlocked what does that mean?

[Brietta]

Both sides leaked regularly, and we have been through all this before.

Have you forgotten the undeniable hostility towards the Portuguese, especially Amaral and the PJ in most sections of the UK press ?

Likewise , the well nigh bending over backwards to support the McCann's since the litigation against the Express ?

I know that one journalist made ill considered remarks which may have offended Goncalo ... but one swallow does not a summer make.

I don't think it really equates with publishing unverifiable theses about the parents of a missing child.

[sadie]

This must be one of the earliest news reports
"Tapas for two ... then parents' nightmare began"  https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/05/world.sandralaville

Interesting bit:  "Their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, lay undisturbed in their cots beside the bed, making the absence of the child they call Maddy all the more haunting. Nothing appeared to have been stolen from the room, but the shutters seemed to have been forced, the window was open and the main door unlocked, according to the family."

The main door unlocked what does that mean?

The door was not double locked [deadlocked], but it was latched requiring a key to get in.

This is like, I suspect, the majority of homes in the UK.
Most of us go out slamming the door behind us in the knowledge that a key is required to open the door.

Many of us, however, double lock our doors (deadlock) when we go away for a prolonged time.

On many UK doors, a little known fact is that the latched door lock can be opened using something most of us carry around every day.  I dont think this is possible on a double (dead) locked door ... but I am not an expert!


So, it seems, the front door was effectively locked, even if not dead locked

[G-Unit]

I know that one journalist made ill considered remarks which may have offended Goncalo ... but one swallow does not a summer make.

I don't think it really equates with publishing unverifiable theses about the parents of a missing child.

That journalist was a very busy person;

Adjectives used by the British Press to describe Goncalo Amaral and/or the Portuguese police
(Source: Factiva database)

53 articles: "boozy" or "boozer" (Examples)
418 articles: "disgraced, disgraceful, disgrace" (Examples)
440 articles: "outrage, outrageous" etc. 
37 articles: "bungling"
23 articles: "Keystone cops" (or Kops) (or Keystone cretins)  ("Keystone" cops has been used by English speaking people to describe bumbling or inept cops; based on old movies of the Keystone Cops.  Extremely insulting articles.)
 
42 articles: "Goncalo Amaral" and "lunch"  (includes all the "boozy lunch" "two hour lunch" etc. Many accuse him of "boozy three hour lunches" etc.  Why is it newsworthy that a man eats lunch?)
45 articles: "inept"
220 articles: "sacked" or "fired"  (Note: Amaral was TRANSFERRED off the Maddie case and then chose to quit.)
49 articles: "hampered" "hampering" "hindered" "hindering" (the investigation);
43 articles: "outburst" (regarding his statement re: McCanns and the British police)
43 articles: "shameful" "shame" "shamed"
14 articles: "evil"
146 articles: "torture" "tortured" "attacked" (re: Leonor Cipriano)
http://newsoutlines.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/adjectives-used-by-british-press-to.html

[Eleanor]

Goncalo  Amaral had his own axe to grind.  It completely defeats me for why he was allowed to coordinate this case in the first place.  He apparently offered to do so when he was bout to take a holiday.  So why did he do this?

He must have thought that all of his birthdays had come, and was about to prove that yet another Mother had murdered her child, proving that he was right in the first instance, when in fact there never was any evidence of such.

This again is quite simple to me.  Amaral was on the run and had to in some way excuse his diabolical conclusions, bearing in mind that he hadn't yet been called to Court.

I have no real thoughts on who this man is.  Probably an intellectual moron who never needed to be anything other.  Probably still a Fascist, but not exactly his fault.

Just a very sorry tale of the damage that he did.

[sadie]

That journalist was a very busy person;

Adjectives used by the British Press to describe Goncalo Amaral and/or the Portuguese police
(Source: Factiva database)

53 articles: "boozy" or "boozer" (Examples)
418 articles: "disgraced, disgraceful, disgrace" (Examples)
440 articles: "outrage, outrageous" etc. 
37 articles: "bungling"
23 articles: "Keystone cops" (or Kops) (or Keystone cretins)  ("Keystone" cops has been used by English speaking people to describe bumbling or inept cops; based on old movies of the Keystone Cops.  Extremely insulting articles.)
 
42 articles: "Goncalo Amaral" and "lunch"  (includes all the "boozy lunch" "two hour lunch" etc. Many accuse him of "boozy three hour lunches" etc.  Why is it newsworthy that a man eats lunch?)
45 articles: "inept"
220 articles: "sacked" or "fired"  (Note: Amaral was TRANSFERRED off the Maddie case and then chose to quit.)
49 articles: "hampered" "hampering" "hindered" "hindering" (the investigation);
43 articles: "outburst" (regarding his statement re: McCanns and the British police)
43 articles: "shameful" "shame" "shamed"
14 articles: "evil"
146 articles: "torture" "tortured" "attacked" (re: Leonor Cipriano)
http://newsoutlines.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/adjectives-used-by-british-press-to.html

I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.

Surely?



TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court

1)  He had no proof that Joana had died.
2)  The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood
3)  He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her.  No proof at all, just from his imagination
4)  He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs.  No proof, just from his imjagination.   And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left.   But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO

There is more but I will leave it there.

[ferryman]

I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.

Surely?



TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court

1)  He had no proof that Joana had died.
2)  The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood
3)  He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her.  No proof at all, just from his imagination
4)  He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs.  No proof, just from his imjagination.   And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left.   But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO

There is more but I will leave it there.

Some of those labels are (unjustly) pejorative when applied to the whole of the Portuguese input to the first, shelved, enquiry. 

To be clear, there was some (genuinely) excellent work put in on the ground by Portuguese officers, and also the Portuguese dog-handlers, who first looked for Madeleine.

But an investigation of honest endeavour was (badly) betrayed by poor leadership and inept processing of information gathered during the course of the investigation.

[Angelo222]

Goncalo  Amaral had his own axe to grind.  It completely defeats me for why he was allowed to coordinate this case in the first place.  He apparently offered to do so when he was bout to take a holiday.  So why did he do this?

He must have thought that all of his birthdays had come, and was about to prove that yet another Mother had murdered her child, proving that he was right in the first instance, when in fact there never was any evidence of such.

This again is quite simple to me.  Amaral was on the run and had to in some way excuse his diabolical conclusions, bearing in mind that he hadn't yet been called to Court.

I have no real thoughts on who this man is.  Probably an intellectual moron who never needed to be anything other.  Probably still a Fascist, but not exactly his fault.

Just a very sorry tale of the damage that he did.

If the McCanns had spent tbeir energies cooperating fully with the police investigation instead of demeaning it constantly then some progress could have been made but their actions only attracted suspicion and diverted valuable resources which could have been deployed elsewhere.

[ferryman]

If the McCanns had spent tbeir energies cooperating fully with the police investigation instead of demeaning it constantly then some progress could have been made but their actions only attracted suspicion and diverted valuable resources which could have been deployed elsewhere.

If the McCanns had meekly submitted to the lies rained down upon them in the form of inaccurate presentation of forensic results (in particular) they would now be in a Portuguese jail and the case would be 'solved'.

Is that what you mean?

[Angelo222]

I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.

Surely?



TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court

1)  He had no proof that Joana had died.
2)  The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood
3)  He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her.  No proof at all, just from his imagination
4)  He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs.  No proof, just from his imjagination.   And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left.   But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO

There is more but I will leave it there.

John Cipriano can be seen on video enacting how he cut up his niece and fed her to the swine so let's stop the crap Sadie.  Amaral might have crossed a few lines before he put the Ciprianos away but in my opinion he was spot on.  Whether he was right to pursue the McCanns to tbe extent he and the prosecutors did is still open to debate.

ps  you still haven't grasped the fact that Amaral wasn't in charge but was taking orders from above.

[ferryman]

John Cipriano can be seen on video enacting how he cut up his niece and fed her to the swine so let's stop the crap Sadie.

"Stop the crap".

How safe is any 'confession' under torture or duress?