General discussion about the latest news (not search related)

[stephen25000]

How do they intend to accomplish this?  This is errant nonsense.  No one can be "Forced" to take a lie detector test.

Quite.

it seems an act of desperation.

[Eleanor]

Quite.

it seems an act of desperation.

Actually, I think it was The Mail beefing things up a bit, again.  I do read The Mail On Line, because it is the best organised Media Web Site.  But I take all newspaper articles with a pinch of salt these days.

I am never going to quite forgive myself for being briefly taken in by Media reports when Madeleine first went missing.

[G-Unit]

Actually, I think it was The Mail beefing things up a bit, again.  I do read The Mail On Line, because it is the best organised Media Web Site.  But I take all newspaper articles with a pinch of salt these days.

I am never going to quite forgive myself for being briefly taken in by Media reports when Madeleine first went missing.

It's not clear to me why the media became so unreliable, but I heard an interesting quote the other day saying 'We don't have a monopoly any more'. Was it because a few owners had a monopoly that they thought they could shape public opinion? Both Blair and Cameron made sure they had Murdoch's support, then he became irrelevant.

Now very few people trust the media and it's all their own fault. They felt so 'in charge' that their standards fell dramatically and even those who aren't particularly aware realised they couldn't be trusted. 

Lie detector tests, as far as I know, aren't compulsory in the UK.

[Eleanor]

It's not clear to me why the media became so unreliable, but I heard an interesting quote the other day saying 'We don't have a monopoly any more'. Was it because a few owners had a monopoly that they thought they could shape public opinion? Both Blair and Cameron made sure they had Murdoch's support, then he became irrelevant.

Now very few people trust the media and it's all their own fault. They felt so 'in charge' that their standards fell dramatically and even those who aren't particularly aware realised they couldn't be trusted. 

Lie detector tests, as far as I know, aren't compulsory in the UK.

Lie Detector Tests aren't compulsory anywhere.  Although Torture sometimes raises it's ugly head.

I don't buy newspapers anymore, but I am sure that they are worse than they were twenty odd years ago when I still did.

[G-Unit]

Lie Detector Tests aren't compulsory anywhere.  Although Torture sometimes raises it's ugly head.

I don't buy newspapers anymore, but I am sure that they are worse than they were twenty odd years ago when I still did.

I suppose anyone refusing a lie detector test might be seen as having something to hide. On the other hand fear of failing  test might stop people coming forward with important information. I think it just adds complications.

Most of the media are out of touch, as their complete failure to spot what was happening with the Labour leader clearly demonstrated.

[misty]

Lie Detector Tests aren't compulsory anywhere.  Although Torture sometimes raises it's ugly head.

I don't buy newspapers anymore, but I am sure that they are worse than they were twenty odd years ago when I still did.

I believe US Law Enforcement makes candidates undergo a polygraph based on an extensive written application. The FBI often turns down applicants who fail the test so I guess refusal to participate is not an option if you want the job.

[Eleanor]

I suppose anyone refusing a lie detector test might be seen as having something to hide. On the other hand fear of failing  test might stop people coming forward with important information. I think it just adds complications.

Most of the media are out of touch, as their complete failure to spot what was happening with the Labour leader clearly demonstrated.

Of course it will.  I'm not sure I would want to come forward if I thought I might not be believed.

So one refuses and they don't believe you.  Then what?

[Eleanor]

I believe US Law Enforcement makes candidates undergo a polygraph based on an extensive written application. The FBI often turns down applicants who fail the test so I guess refusal to participate is not an option if you want the job.

That made me laugh.  But best I don't say anything Libellous about The FBI.

[G-Unit]

Of course it will.  I'm not sure I would want to come forward if I thought I might not be believed.

So one refuses and they don't believe you.  Then what?

I think they're using it on people who are voluntarily offering information about others, so no consequences for them, but a potential loss of information by the security services.

[John]

Given the amount of thread cleaning which has been required recently, posters should ensure that their comments are relevant to the thread they intend to post on.  A single comment can take a thread off at a tangent so please bear this in mind.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

[misty]

I think they're using it on people who are voluntarily offering information about others, so no consequences for them, but a potential loss of information by the security services.

There could be grave consequences for anyone caught providing intelligence to the security services as they have often been on the wrong side of the law themselves. Most sources have some sort of connection to whoever they are offering information about & usually the officer dealing with a source keeps the identity of the source secret. To arrange a polygraph, which would leave DNA evidence on the equipment & the capacity for voice recognition aside from sorting out a baseline test, would undermine the whole informant process. IMO.

[Eleanor]

There could be grave consequences for anyone caught providing intelligence to the security services as they have often been on the wrong side of the law themselves. Most sources have some sort of connection to whoever they are offering information about & usually the officer dealing with a source keeps the identity of the source secret. To arrange a polygraph, which would leave DNA evidence on the equipment & the capacity for voice recognition aside from sorting out a baseline test, would undermine the whole informant process. IMO.

I think you are right.  This is a very silly idea.  So who let this one loose, and why?

[misty]

http://portugalresident.com/racism-and-torture-public-ministry-accuses-psp-police

Over two years since a shocking BBC investigation exposed extreme cases of police brutality in Lisbon neighbourhood Cova da Moura, the Public ministry has finally cited 18 PSP agents for the crimes of torture, kidnapping and qualified injury and offence to physical integrity “aggravated by hatred and racial discrimination”.

The news will come as vindication to those who gave their stories to BBC journalist James Fletcher in 2015.

As Fletcher explained at the time “Four separate investigations are underway... Both the Interior Ministry and Portugal's racial discrimination commission are investigating”.

But it has taken all this time for “an accusation without precedent in this country” to be formulated.

Indeed, if the interior ministry’s ‘investigation’ had been accepted, no accusations would have been made, reports Diário de Notícias today, as IGAI (the general inspectorate of internal administration) archived the case “by virtue that inquiries showed an absence of fundamentation for disciplinary proceedings against (police agents) to be opened”.

The PJ’s counter-terrorism unit (UNCT) has found differently, and this has led to the Public Ministry accusations.

The case centres on the treatment of six young Cape Verdian men, in February 2015.

The BBC’s story can be read here (click here).

Diário de Notícias has repeated it today, with emphasis on the insults hurled at the young men as they were being “kicked and punched” repeatedly as they lay helpless on the floor.

According to the paper as they were being physically assaulted in the local police station, one agent told them: “You do not know how much I hate your race. I want to exterminate all of you. You should be deported. If it was up to me, you would all be sterilised”.

Another challenged the men to “go to ISIS” … “You will all disappear, you, your race and your stinking neighbourhood”

DN stresses that the PJ investigation has also uncovered the crimes of “falsification of (police) reports and witness statements”.

There is even a female sub-commissioner and a female police agent accused of the crimes of failing to help (the victims) and failing to denounce (the behaviour of colleagues).

As DN explains: “At the station everyone participated in the crimes”.

Today, SOS Racism has declared that “the (Portuguese) State has been blind and deaf to the existence of racism in (its) institutions for too long”.

Talking to TSF radio, the association’s leader Mamadou Ba said “now isn’t the time for celebrating. We need to wait for judicial authorities to do their work. This is an important step for the affirmation of justice and for the concept of equality of justice for all.

“For now, I wait in hope. There have been several cases in which, first there is an accusation - particularly in the case of deaths in police custody - and then police end up being cleared”.

natasha.donn@algarveresident.com

===================================================================

[Benice]

http://portugalresident.com/racism-and-torture-public-ministry-accuses-psp-police

Over two years since a shocking BBC investigation exposed extreme cases of police brutality in Lisbon neighbourhood Cova da Moura, the Public ministry has finally cited 18 PSP agents for the crimes of torture, kidnapping and qualified injury and offence to physical integrity “aggravated by hatred and racial discrimination”.

The news will come as vindication to those who gave their stories to BBC journalist James Fletcher in 2015.

As Fletcher explained at the time “Four separate investigations are underway... Both the Interior Ministry and Portugal's racial discrimination commission are investigating”.

But it has taken all this time for “an accusation without precedent in this country” to be formulated.

Indeed, if the interior ministry’s ‘investigation’ had been accepted, no accusations would have been made, reports Diário de Notícias today, as IGAI (the general inspectorate of internal administration) archived the case “by virtue that inquiries showed an absence of fundamentation for disciplinary proceedings against (police agents) to be opened”.

The PJ’s counter-terrorism unit (UNCT) has found differently, and this has led to the Public Ministry accusations.

The case centres on the treatment of six young Cape Verdian men, in February 2015.

The BBC’s story can be read here (click here).

Diário de Notícias has repeated it today, with emphasis on the insults hurled at the young men as they were being “kicked and punched” repeatedly as they lay helpless on the floor.

According to the paper as they were being physically assaulted in the local police station, one agent told them: “You do not know how much I hate your race. I want to exterminate all of you. You should be deported. If it was up to me, you would all be sterilised”.

Another challenged the men to “go to ISIS” … “You will all disappear, you, your race and your stinking neighbourhood”

DN stresses that the PJ investigation has also uncovered the crimes of “falsification of (police) reports and witness statements”.

There is even a female sub-commissioner and a female police agent accused of the crimes of failing to help (the victims) and failing to denounce (the behaviour of colleagues).

As DN explains: “At the station everyone participated in the crimes”.

Today, SOS Racism has declared that “the (Portuguese) State has been blind and deaf to the existence of racism in (its) institutions for too long”.

Talking to TSF radio, the association’s leader Mamadou Ba said “now isn’t the time for celebrating. We need to wait for judicial authorities to do their work. This is an important step for the affirmation of justice and for the concept of equality of justice for all.

“For now, I wait in hope. There have been several cases in which, first there is an accusation - particularly in the case of deaths in police custody - and then police end up being cleared”.

natasha.donn@algarveresident.com

===================================================================

It seems that the Portuguese are finally beginning to acknowledge the terrible injustices inflicted on innocent people by an element of their police force who have shown total contempt for their own laws - in the knowledge that they will almost certainly get away with it.

Maybe there is hope for justice for Leonora Cipriano after all.  Her PJ torturers are still walking around free.

AIMHO

[misty]

It seems that the Portuguese are finally beginning to acknowledge the terrible injustices inflicted on innocent people by an element of their police force who have shown total contempt for their own laws - in the knowledge that they will almost certainly get away with it.

Maybe there is hope for justice for Leonora Cipriano after all.  Her PJ torturers are still walking around free.

AIMHO

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/827604/Portuguese-police-force-Alfragide-station-charged-torture-six-black-men

The story has been picked up by the UK press.

I don't know that there's actually any hope for proper justice for anyone there  . No-one can give Leonor back her lost time, with or without Joana, even if she is innocent.
 The "Super-Judge" Carlos Alexandre, who oversaw the most recent aborted trial of Cristovao, is being accused of all sorts. https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/magistrado-acusado-de-corrupcao-emprestou-10-mil-euros-ao-juiz-carlos-alexandre&prev=search
Cristovao continues to be at loggerheads with the Sporting Lisbon president Carvalho
http://www.record.pt/futebol/futebol-nacional/liga-nos/sporting/detalhe/paulo-pereira-cristovao-sobre-bruno-de-carvalho-e-um-deslumbrado-hipocrita.html

Everywhere you look, the same names with some sort of link to the McCann/Cipriano cases keep cropping up in relation to alleged criminal activity.