According to some, there is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction.

[Brietta]

I’m not suggesting Madeleine did wake and wonder but if the window and shutter hadn’t been open how could the McCanns have pushed the narrative of an abduction ? Without the window and shutter claim there would be no visible evidence of an abduction and that is why the open window and shutter has had to stay even though there’s no sensible reason for it being open.

Try to bear in mind that whatever your personal prejudices, two national police forces are currently investigating Madeleine's abduction based on the evidence to hand.

[faithlilly]

Try to bear in mind that whatever your personal prejudices, two national police forces are currently investigating Madeleine's abduction based on the evidence to hand.

And try to bear in mind that since Redwood’s last piece to camera (2014 I think ) we have been given no information on what OG or the PJ are investigating.

[sadie]

An opinion?   Any able bodied almost four-year-old can open a door.

In your opinion

But this door was not a door she was familiar with; she may not have understood the locking mechanism, the mechanism may have been too strong for her little fingers, the door itself was solid wood and looked very heavy.

Also she was mechanically disadvantaged, most especially if trying to grasp that big knob level, or above her head, to pull the door closed.  To try and pull that door to on a gusty night, with the wind obviously coming from a northerly direction, would I think have defeated her.

As misty so astutely points out, 'why would she bother to open the window and shutters if she could open the door and walk straight out?'

And as Erngath points out from an experienced position it sounds, the difference in strength between a slightly built nearly 4 year old girl could be immensely different from a strongly well built boy of the same age.


And Angelo, how do you account for there being no fingerprints on the door, nor the window, nor the patio door, nor either of the gates (aparantly?)


It is just IN YOUR OPINION, is it not?   Please can we have the IMO added, as we (on our side of the discussion), all have to.  Leadership from the top would be truly appreciated.

[misty]

If it wasn’t claimed that the shutter and window were open what else would there have been to suggest an abduction and not simply a woke and wandered ?

In a hypothetical cover-up, why would there have been a need for an abduction which occurred from within the apartment? The patio door had been left unlocked; it would have been simple for a child to exit voluntarily, for whatever reason.
By introducing another physical presence via an open window/shutter, there would have been the need for some sort of additional evidence of an intruder. Why complicate matters when a woke & wandered scenario would have been the simplest & most plausible reason for Madeleine's disappearance?
 Without any CCTV, who could ever prove what had subsequently happened out on the streets, causing Madeleine to disappear without trace?

[G-Unit]

In a hypothetical cover-up, why would there have been a need for an abduction which occurred from within the apartment? The patio door had been left unlocked; it would have been simple for a child to exit voluntarily, for whatever reason.
By introducing another physical presence via an open window/shutter, there would have been the need for some sort of additional evidence of an intruder. Why complicate matters when a woke & wandered scenario would have been the simplest & most plausible reason for Madeleine's disappearance?
 Without any CCTV, who could ever prove what had subsequently happened out on the streets, causing Madeleine to disappear without trace?

The alleged open window and shutters, along with Jane Tanner's sighting, are supposedly evidence pointing to an abduction. Without them all you have is parents who went out leaving their children to do as they wished, including waking and wandering off. Which is, of course, what they did.

[Robittybob1]

The alleged open window and shutters, along with Jane Tanner's sighting, are supposedly evidence pointing to an abduction. Without them all you have is parents who went out leaving their children to do as they wished, including waking and wandering off. Which is, of course, what they did.

So what have you concluded?

[barrier]

The Amaral investigation quite obviously did not accept the 'woke and wandered theory'.
The Rebelo investigation didn't run with it either.
The current Portuguese and British investigations are both into Madeleine's abduction; which would lead one to suppose they have the evidence which points in that direction.

Seven yrs later multi millions spent by the UK,still no arrest still no suspects,it could be easily said that the alleged  abduction theory is the wrong direction.

[G-Unit]

So what have you concluded?

In my opinion the only evidence of an abduction was provided by the McCann couple. The only evidence that the garden gate and child gate were closed was provided by Kate McCann. They both reported that the window and shutters were open, but their friend who entered the apartment with them didn't see this evidence, so that's unconfirmed.

She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

I was very interested in finding what the state of the apartment was like........I didn't actually enter too much into the room but I walked to the edge and you know there was, you know the twins were in their cots, err they were in you know parallel, there was you know I could see, you know I think they were much further into the room but you know I could see Madeleine's bed
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Alice Purjorick]

Seven yrs later multi millions spent by the UK,still no arrest still no suspects,it could be easily said that the alleged  abduction theory is the wrong direction.

What with The Met. The P.J and The Leicestershire Police all coming up empty handed ; then according to Tracy Kandohla eight (?) sets of PIs ditto, it's a good job the armchair internet sloofs with their dossiers n such are kicking up otherwise the case really would be behind the eight ball methinks.

[faithlilly]

The alleged open window and shutters, along with Jane Tanner's sighting, are supposedly evidence pointing to an abduction. Without them all you have is parents who went out leaving their children to do as they wished, including waking and wandering off. Which is, of course, what they did.

Exactly G.

[Alice Purjorick]

The alleged open window and shutters, along with Jane Tanner's sighting, are supposedly evidence pointing to an abduction. Without them all you have is parents who went out leaving their children to do as they wished, including waking and wandering off. Which is, of course, what they did.

Jane Tanner's sighting only worked if one made the quantum leap that in an area where parents carrying kids was common place (allegedly) the man she happened to see carying a child was "the abductor"; with or without the status of windows and shutters and in the absence of a definitive time for the alleged event.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Try to bear in mind that whatever your personal prejudices, two national police forces are currently investigating Madeleine's abduction based on the evidence to hand.

Please provide a cite for the Portuguese police force looking for an 'abductor' based on what evidence.. thanks.

Because Kate said so isn't  evidence .

[Miss Taken Identity]

Did it matter that the door was unlocked when so many contend Madeleine could have exited via either door of her own volition? Why (allegedly) stage an intrusion scene using the presumed secure access point when it would have been much simpler to say Madeleine had just wandered off & anything that subsequently happened was outside the parents' control?

Why (allegedly) stage an intrusion scene using the presumed secure access point when it would have been much simpler to say Madeleine had just wandered off & anything that subsequently happened was outside the parents' control?


Why indeed... Well I believe that to admit that a few things could have happened to change the scene.

1. they would have more likely been arrested & questioned - not treated as ' poor victims'
2. They would not have called home to say what they had done- no sky TV- no hysteria- no fund money
3. on return to the UK if they were not held for some charge , the UK social services would have certainly been involved ( I did make discreet enquiries).
4. A real back lash from many quarters. in the UK including from their employers. If they can't be bothered looking after their children should we trust them to look after our patients.

IMO they had a lot to lose by not admitting ther was no stranger abduction.  = Motive

[Brietta]

Please provide a cite for the Portuguese police force looking for an 'abductor' based on what evidence.. thanks.

Because Kate said so isn't  evidence .

'They believe us': Portuguese police finally re-enact Madeleine abduction
Last updated at 13:09 30 October 2007

In a clear sign that Portuguese police are moving back towards the possibility that the four-year old was abducted the new head of the Portuguese police investigation returned to the McCanns' apartment last night to re-enact a possible abduction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490610/They-believe-Portuguese-police-finally-enact-Madeleine-abduction.html#ixzz5CdfvxM4k

Snip
The Portuguese source said the police had been investigating Monteiro before Lisbon officialy reopened its McCann inquiries. "It was on based on the combination of leads that the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) decided to request permission to resume investigations into the case. The public prosecutor's office agreed with our evaluation and ordered the case to be reopened," the source said.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/20/madeleine-mcann-suspect-died-in-2009

[Miss Taken Identity]

'They believe us': Portuguese police finally re-enact Madeleine abduction
Last updated at 13:09 30 October 2007

In a clear sign that Portuguese police are moving back towards the possibility that the four-year old was abducted the new head of the Portuguese police investigation returned to the McCanns' apartment last night to re-enact a possible abduction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490610/They-believe-Portuguese-police-finally-enact-Madeleine-abduction.html#ixzz5CdfvxM4k

Snip
The Portuguese source said the police had been investigating Monteiro before Lisbon officialy reopened its McCann inquiries. "It was on based on the combination of leads that the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) decided to request permission to resume investigations into the case. The public prosecutor's office agreed with our evaluation and ordered the case to be reopened," the source said.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/20/madeleine-mcann-suspect-died-in-2009

Well this is great news!  erm why are they still searching for an abductor IF he is dead? case should have been closed?

So sauces said... and they told other sauces... and they....