According to some, there is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction.

[Angelo222]

1)  Like Kate, I dont believe Madeleine could physically have opened it.

2)  I think that with the light from the street lamp illuminating the patio area, a little girl would go for a lit exit (patio) to a blank exit (front door) with nothing to see outside.

3)  The front door was closed. 
A little girl would not be strong enough to close that heavy front door, with only that giant knob to pull.
FGS, The knob was set in the middle of the door making it much harder to pull and her little hands would be too small to grip the giant knob.
 
If I am remembering my mechanics properly she would need twice the pull to close it, than if the knob were set at the edge of the door.  She just wouldn't be physically able to close it IMO, especially as it was about head heightrather than waist height

4)  I dont believe that she would choose to exit that way either, cos most often she used the patio entrance

5)  IF, and I don't believe it could have happened, she got out, she would be surrounded by high walls relative to her size.  She would be in a very dark place, with only the sky and the whooshing trees to see.  It would have been spooky.  I think that she would have been terrified and gone straight back inside.

As a child, when on my own in the dark, I used to be frightened of trees that had whooshing branches hanging down.  This fear went on into my teens.


The front door, Rob was too heavy and wouldn't close for her ... and then it would have been too spooky and dark.  And all that doesn't allow for the fact that her fingers might not have been strong enough to open the latch, if she knew how!


Nah, she didn't go out of the front door of her own volition


IMO

All of that is just an excuse.  Maddie would have been very capable of opening and closing the front door if it hadn't been security locked using the key.

[G-Unit]

Why was it deemed necessary, slarti, to add another emboldened ALL IMO at the front of this post?  One was already at the end ... and it is all facts, except where I have couched the words with phrases such as 'I think'. 'I  don't  believe',  and without your emboldened 'ALL IMO' there are already two IMO's.

With respect, you are showing your bias and moderators should not show bias.  You dont really want these relevant facts and thoughts displayed, do you?   Cos, if correct, they rubbish the theory of your side that Madeleine departed through the front door of her own volition

You know what i am saying about the Mechanical disadvantage is correct cos you too are, or have been, someone involved in Mechanics.  You have shown that in your posts.  An Engineer or an Architect maybe?


Maybe you should look to some of the posts from your side and slap emboldened 'ALL IMO's' at the beginning of them too
So stop the people of your persuasion putting out their often very bigotted thoughts as facts

As none of your post can be proved to be true, there are no facts in there in my opinion.

[ShiningInLuz]

Why was it deemed necessary, slarti, to add another emboldened ALL IMO at the front of this post?  One was already at the end ... and it is all facts, except where I have couched the words with phrases such as 'I think'. 'I  don't  believe',  and without your emboldened 'ALL IMO' there are already two IMO's.

With respect, you are showing your bias and moderators should not show bias.  You dont really want these relevant facts and thoughts displayed, do you?   Cos, if correct, they rubbish the theory of your side that Madeleine departed through the front door of her own volition

You know what i am saying about the Mechanical disadvantage is correct cos you too are, or have been, someone involved in Mechanics.  You have shown that in your posts.  An Engineer or an Architect maybe?


Maybe you should look to some of the posts from your side and slap emboldened 'ALL IMO's' at the beginning of them too
So stop the people of your persuasion putting out their often very bigotted thoughts as facts

If there is to be a large slab of opinion/speculation in a post, it certainly helps me if the warning sticker is put at the front.

Personally, I dislike reading through large posts only to find that the last line is IMO, or similar.

It is the same with books.  It is the same with films.  I like to know up front whether I am getting a true account, or someone's personal viewpoint.

[G-Unit]

The difference between opinion and fact seems to be an extremely difficult concept for some to grasp.  I don't understand why people make untrue statements either. The knob on the outside of the door to 5A, for example, wasn't "set in the middle of the door" as a poster claimed;

[John]

Back to topic please everyone and dispense with the goading.  TY

[sadie]

The difference between opinion and fact seems to be an extremely difficult concept for some to grasp.  I don't understand why people make untrue statements either. The knob on the outside of the door to 5A, for example, wasn't "set in the middle of the door" as a poster claimed;

You are quite correct and I am wrong.  Having seen a similar door with a central similar knob elsewhere, I remembered it incorrectly.   My apologies.

When I return home I will correct my error.  Thank you for pointing it out.

sadie

[Robittybob1]

You are quite correct and I am wrong.  Having seen a similar door with a central similar knob elsewhere, I remembered it incorrectly.   My apologies.

When I return home I will correct my error.  Thank you for pointing it out.

sadie

Think about the action of closing the door too Sadie please?

[sadie]

A child safety gate won't stop a nearly four-year-old Sadie, I'm surprised you even suggested such a preposterous notion.  They simply climb over them.  In any event it has never been proven that any of the gates were closed.

Steps are usually about 7" high, so add that height to the height of the gate and that would be a daunting drop for Madeleine.  The steps look concrete with rough brick like tiles on top ... and if Madeleine did try to climb over then she would have left finger prints all over the gate and fibres and probably have had a nasty fall at the bottom of the gate, leaving skin scrapings and ?blood.

Finger prints, fibres nor blood/skin were not picked up by the PJ, nor the dogs.

You do realise, Angelo, that not only was the formidable gates height +step height involved, but she also had to land upright on a narrow step.

But IF, and it is a big IF, she managed all this + the patio door, how come she didn't Yell her parents?  No fingerprints there either.

The first thing that she would do when on the patio would be to hear and see her friends and parents just 50 metres away.

Then, how come she had the presence of mind to close the patio door behind her and also the garden gate?  She was 3, nearly 4, not an older child who might have done some of these things.

Soz, Angelo, but she didn't go out that way either.  IMO

[sadie]

All of that is just an excuse.  Maddie would have been very capable of opening and closing the front door if it hadn't been security locked using the key.

Is that "IN YOUR OPINION"?  Angelo

[Miss Taken Identity]

As none of your post can be proved to be true, there are no facts in there in my opinion.

It makes a nice read though doesn't it.

I am still waiting for the 'circumstantial' evidence to be forthcoming...

However, I am inclined to think this will be  -Kate said this , and Kate Said that,  so it MUST be true kind of thing.

[G-Unit]

On the subject of sliding glass doors, small children are quite capable of opening them;
https://community.babycenter.com/post/a33711073/help_how_do_i_baby_proof_a_sliding_glass_door

They are also quite capable of opening stair gates;
https://www.circleofmoms.com/toddlers/what-do-you-when-your-two-year-old-s-can-open-your-stair-gates-579831

So there wasn't necessarily any physical reason why Madeleine couldn't exit via the patio door. The only evidence that she didn't is her mother's opinion.

[Angelo222]

Is that "IN YOUR OPINION"?  Angelo

An opinion?   Any able bodied almost four-year-old can open a door.

[Miss Taken Identity]

On the subject of sliding glass doors, small children are quite capable of opening them;
https://community.babycenter.com/post/a33711073/help_how_do_i_baby_proof_a_sliding_glass_door

They are also quite capable of opening stair gates;
https://www.circleofmoms.com/toddlers/what-do-you-when-your-two-year-old-s-can-open-your-stair-gates-579831

So there wasn't necessarily any physical reason why Madeleine couldn't exit via the patio door. The only evidence that she didn't is her mother's opinion.

We are ofcourse assuming they were closed! well are we assuming? or has Kate n Gerry told us they were closed and MBM had some kind of impairment which would make it 'impossible' for her daughter to exit that way?

[Erngath]

An opinion?   Any able bodied almost four-year-old can open a door.

I disagree.
There can be a huge difference in the height and strength of almost four year olds.
A petite little girl will not have the same strength as a taller and stronger almost four  year old boy.

The variance in height and weight between the children in reception class was quite striking.

[G-Unit]

I disagree.
There can be a huge difference in the height and strength of almost four year olds.
A petite little girl will not have the same strength as a taller and stronger almost four  year old boy.

The variance in height and weight between the children in reception class was quite striking.

I posted links to 2-3 year old children opening sliding doors and stair gates, so I wouldn't expect a child of Madeleine's age to have any problem.