Theory #1

[sadie]

1. The statement translation has been altered from the one originally online (note the insertion of the street name which does not appear in the Portuguese version). The original translation also said the dog turned right at the end of the alleyway whereas the Portuguese version said left.
(ETA previously posted here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg421504#msg421504)

2. The handler referred to an Aztec towel. I do not see why he would have mistaken a pink blanket for an Aztec towel.

3. Would you dispute that the scent could have been just as easily attributed to Gerry's known movements after 10pm on 3/5/07 if the control item was a bath towel? I have seen nothing to confirm that 5A was provided with 5 clean towels on the Thursday.

4. In order to develop your Theory#1 perhaps the above anomalies should be ignored for the time being so we can reach the "what happened next?" part.

Very sound reasoning misty.
Well done

[misty]

I think the 'anomalies' are important, Misty, and should be retained as in your original post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg421504#msg421504 which I believe to be an important piece of information.
Proving in essence what we already knew ... that nothing on the internet is to be trusted when there is in my opinion an agenda in process of deleting and distorting information as proved by the research you have carried out here.

I'd just really like to read reasons why a little girl, frightened by the sound of someone at her bedroom window, would head out into the darkness towards the source of her fear & then walk along dark pathways. What happened after that, unseen & unheard by the many people who were known to have been on or overlooking Rua Martins during the critical hour? The frequent presence of people on that street exceeds, by quite a level, that of anyone known to have been in the car park/street at the front of Block 5.
There's a really curious misrepresentation of information in the PJ files relating to a phone attributed to Murat - but that's another topic for another day.

[sadie]

I think the 'anomalies' are important, Misty, and should be retained as in your original post http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg421504#msg421504 which I believe to be an important piece of information.
Proving in essence what we already knew ... that nothing on the internet is to be trusted when there is in my opinion an agenda in process of deleting and distorting information as proved by the research you have carried out here.

Good point Brietta

Misty, I think it would be a good idea to save everything you have noticed onto a memory stick ... and take hard copies as well.  By everything, I dont mean just the titles of the web pages, but ALL THE CONTENT too.  Web pages suddenly disappear !

Too much that supports the Mccanns is being wiped off the internet.  By extra-ordinarily powerful people ?  My suspect group has strong ties to Silican Valley where all the internet / computer Big Boys are

It is sinister and creepy IMO

All in my honest opinion, based upon facts that I cannot reveal.

[sadie]

BUMPED, sorry Misty that i posted after these, imo, important observations

I'd just really like to read reasons why a little girl, frightened by the sound of someone at her bedroom window, would head out into the darkness towards the source of her fear & then walk along dark pathways. What happened after that, unseen & unheard by the many people who were known to have been on or overlooking Rua Martins during the critical hour? The frequent presence of people on that street exceeds, by quite a level, that of anyone known to have been in the car park/street at the front of Block 5.
There's a really curious misrepresentation of information in the PJ files relating to a phone attributed to Murat - but that's another topic for another day.

Additionally, if she walked that dark pathway, why didn't she then take the route towards the light (street lamps).?

Why did she, a little girl on her own, take the dark route around the block and along UNLIT alleyways?   It's quite a distance ... and in the dark all the way, I think

I dont believe that she walked the dark route

[misty]

Good point Brietta

Misty, I think it would be a good idea to save everything you have noticed onto a memory stick ... and take hard copies as well.  By everything, I dont mean just the titles of the web pages, but ALL THE CONTENT too.  Web pages suddenly disappear !

Too much that supports the Mccanns is being wiped off the internet.  By extra-ordinarily powerful people ?  My suspect group has strong ties to Silican Valley where all the internet / computer Big Boys are

It is sinister and creepy IMO

All in my honest opinion, based upon facts that I cannot reveal.

The madeleinemccann.org/blog that I linked to from my 2017 post no longer exists, so I'm glad I had copied the page onto here.
Dogsdontlie.com has also had all its content wiped, although it can be viewed via Wayback Machine. It was libellous, though. :)
I'm not fanatical enough to put any of this on a memory stick. My memory is fairly good when it comes to information I've read on the case - just not so good when it comes to everyday matters. There appear to be untoward issues relating to McCann-favourable IT content & certain unnamed US citizens but probably best we leave such matters to the experts.

[sadie]

The madeleinemccann.org/blog that I linked to from my 2017 post no longer exists, so I'm glad I had copied the page onto here.
Dogsdontlie.com has also had all its content wiped, although it can be viewed via Wayback Machine. It was libellous, though. :)
I'm not fanatical enough to put any of this on a memory stick. My memory is fairly good when it comes to information I've read on the case - just not so good when it comes to everyday matters. There appear to be untoward issues relating to McCann-favourable IT content & certain unnamed US citizens but probably best we leave such matters to the experts.

I wouldn't trust it being recorded on here.  All my photos of Joana Ciipriano looking clean and happy have been wiped off here.  Also the photo showing how clean and tidy the tiny Cipriano home was.  They have also vanished off the internet, but thankfully I have hard copies of several.

Lots of other things have vanished too.  IMO this is very sinister because the villians, if they have the means, can remove everything that  the damaged person needs to prove their case..


It seems to me that the globally ultra wealthy and people with the nows (?spelling) can manipulate the Law as they wish.  Making Justice a nonsense.   Potentially, it affects us all.   Very very sinister IMO

[misty]

BUMPED, sorry Misty that i posted after these, imo, important observations



Additionally, if she walked that dark pathway, why didn't she then take the route towards the light (street lamps).?

Why did she, a little girl on her own, take the dark route around the block and along UNLIT alleyways?   It's quite a distance ... and in the dark all the way, I think

I dont believe that she walked the dark route

Children of Madeleine's age can be unpredictable. Only Kate & Gerry would have truly known how bold/timid/adventurous/easily scared Madeleine was at that time.
There is also a book called Burglar Bill. A Kindle edition suitable for 2-5yr olds was released in 2007. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CBN6B66/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

If that tale had recently been told to Madeleine, would she have feared being taken by a real-life Burglar Bill? (assuming he spoke English rather than Portuguese)

[Brietta]

Children of Madeleine's age can be unpredictable. Only Kate & Gerry would have truly known how bold/timid/adventurous/easily scared Madeleine was at that time.
There is also a book called Burglar Bill. A Kindle edition suitable for 2-5yr olds was released in 2007. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CBN6B66/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

If that tale had recently been told to Madeleine, would she have feared being taken by a real-life Burglar Bill? (assuming he spoke English rather than Portuguese)

Believe it or not Misty ... I actually bought that book.  I recognised the cover immediately.

[misty]

Believe it or not Misty ... I actually bought that book.  I recognised the cover immediately.

LOL. I'll have to ask my daughter next time I see her if it's one used in pre-school. If only life were that perfect & simple.

[Innominate]

1. The statement translation has been altered from the one originally online (note the insertion of the street name which does not appear in the Portuguese version). The original translation also said the dog turned right at the end of the alleyway whereas the Portuguese version said left.
(ETA previously posted here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7060.msg421504#msg421504)

2. The handler referred to an Aztec towel. I do not see why he would have mistaken a pink blanket for an Aztec towel.

3. Would you dispute that the scent could have been just as easily attributed to Gerry's known movements after 10pm on 3/5/07 if the control item was a bath towel? I have seen nothing to confirm that 5A was provided with 5 clean towels on the Thursday.

4. In order to develop your Theory#1 perhaps the above anomalies should be ignored for the time being so we can reach the "what happened next?" part.

Misty ... it is a theory, and is therefore capable of being disproved - personally I do not mind if it is disproved. Having said that I do not think you have passed a threshold to disprove the theory.

Point 1.

The translation does appear to be slightly weak - it is poor to add a street name without making it clear the translator has added additional clarification.

However, I have Google translated a section:

block 6 turns to the right and heads for the area of ​​the adjacent car park, more concretely next to a light pole, smelling the floor of that place. after crossing the road again and heading for the entrance area of ​​access to the resturants and swimming pool, smelling the door that was closed that hour.

Is  there be any doubt about the location? Plus the translation, if anything, downplayed the description of the location of the door.

Point 2

The towel was supplied by the McCann family to locate MBM. I see no reason to believe this was flawed. I suspect it is the pink towel, but this cannot be proved or disproved.

Point 3

I would dispute this point, but am not an expert.

Point 4

It is ultimately unknown why the dogs lost the scent. If the tracker dog trail is MBM and the scent was lost at that point, it may indicate something happened at that location; there isn't a 100% certainty on this point, simply balance of probabilities. If something happened then realistically it would seem she was either carried off, or possibly involved in a RTA.

All IMO, and ultimately, it is simply a theory.

[Innominate]

When a picture paints a thousand words (OK, maybe 100 in this case).

Thank you for taking the time to post the diagram, but for the record I was aware of this diagram.

My original points were:

There are two potential anomalies in the statements with respect to the sighting: (1) GMcC reports the JT as being 50m from the individual, which would place JT at the entrance, and (2) JT reports:

4078    “And was that, is there another pavement there, on the junction?”
Reply    “No, they were on, there’s a junction, this is sort of the road and they were walking along the side of the pavement, then I would then walk along”.
4078    “So they were on the same side that you were about to walk along?”
Reply    “Yeah”.

50m would place JT at around the entrance to Tapas bar i.e. the door where the tracker dog trail was lost.

The second point, which I did not make explicit enough, was that JT uses the word "along" as opposed to the word "across". This could be a Fredudian slip, but only in the sense that her subconscious mind leaked what she had seen, not a deliberate misleading statement or mistake.

If you take these two points, with my view that it is entirely possible JT was mistaken as to the timing of her sighting: i.e. the sighting occurred when she went to 'relieve' ROB, then the following scenario is a possibility:

1. The tracker dog trail ends around the door of the entrance, which gives access to the Tapas Bar/pool area.

2. A third party carried off MBM whilst walking up R. Francisco Gentil Martins.

3. As the third party approached the top of the road, JT exited the Tapas Bar to 'relieve' ROB.

4. JT saw the third party, at a distance of about 50m, who then crossed to the road.

I'm sure many will not agree this happened, and I cannot prove this happened, but it is not a completely unrealistic scenario.

[sadie]

Thank you for taking the time to post the diagram, but for the record I was aware of this diagram.

My original points were:

There are two potential anomalies in the statements with respect to the sighting: (1) GMcC reports the JT as being 50m from the individual, which would place JT at the entrance, and (2) JT reports:

4078    “And was that, is there another pavement there, on the junction?”
Reply    “No, they were on, there’s a junction, this is sort of the road and they were walking along the side of the pavement, then I would then walk along”.
4078    “So they were on the same side that you were about to walk along?”
Reply    “Yeah”.

50m would place JT at around the entrance to Tapas bar i.e. the door where the tracker dog trail was lost.

The second point, which I did not make explicit enough, was that JT uses the word "along" as opposed to the word "across". This could be a Fredudian slip, but only in the sense that her subconscious mind leaked what she had seen, not a deliberate misleading statement or mistake.

If you take these two points, with my view that it is entirely possible JT was mistaken as to the timing of her sighting: i.e. the sighting occurred when she went to 'relieve' ROB, then the following scenario is a possibility:

1. The tracker dog trail ends around the door of the Tapas bar entrance.

2. A third party carried off MBM whilst walking up R. Francisco Gentil Martins.

3. As the third party approached the top of the road, JT exited the Tapas Bar to 'relieve' ROB.

4. JT saw the third party, at a distance of about 50m, who then crossed to the road.

I'm sure many will not agree this happened, and I cannot prove this happened, but it is not a completely unrealistic scenario.

Gerry Mccanns report was NOT verbatim.  I think that he was muddled.

In the past coupla weeks or so, we have identified a report where Jane was being interviewed in a room.  She identified the distance as being about 5 metres, based on concrete sizes of that actual room.

I find that a very good method of judging shortish distances .

As Tannerman walked away the distance would alter, of course.


I think that about 5 metres is a safer bet than 50 metres, Inno.   

[Brietta]

Thank you for taking the time to post the diagram, but for the record I was aware of this diagram.

My original points were:

There are two potential anomalies in the statements with respect to the sighting: (1) GMcC reports the JT as being 50m from the individual, which would place JT at the entrance, and (2) JT reports:

4078    “And was that, is there another pavement there, on the junction?”
Reply    “No, they were on, there’s a junction, this is sort of the road and they were walking along the side of the pavement, then I would then walk along”.
4078    “So they were on the same side that you were about to walk along?”
Reply    “Yeah”.

50m would place JT at around the entrance to Tapas bar i.e. the door where the tracker dog trail was lost.

The second point, which I did not make explicit enough, was that JT uses the word "along" as opposed to the word "across". This could be a Fredudian slip, but only in the sense that her subconscious mind leaked what she had seen, not a deliberate misleading statement or mistake.

If you take these two points, with my view that it is entirely possible JT was mistaken as to the timing of her sighting: i.e. the sighting occurred when she went to 'relieve' ROB, then the following scenario is a possibility:

1. The tracker dog trail ends around the door of the Tapas bar entrance.

2. A third party carried off MBM whilst walking up R. Francisco Gentil Martins.

3. As the third party approached the top of the road, JT exited the Tapas Bar to 'relieve' ROB.

4. JT saw the third party, at a distance of about 50m, who then crossed to the road.

I'm sure many will not agree this happened, and I cannot prove this happened, but it is not a completely unrealistic scenario.

Jane Tanner said
“Yes, erm, I was, I think I was nearing the top of the road, it’s a bit of a, I’m trying to think how, but I can’t really remember how much of a hill it is, but it is definitely a hill going up there, and just as I got to the top somebody did walk across. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

I think it is important when working on a thesis to use all the available information.  Jane Tanner is quite explicit in stating exactly where she was and I think her statement carries the weight of the fact she is witness to the event.

If you don't take her estimation of distance into consideration in my opinion any conclusion your theory may reach is flawed.

[Robittybob1]

"Jane Tanner is quite explicit in stating exactly where she was and I think her statement carries the weight of the fact she is witness to the event.

If you don't take her estimation of distance into consideration in my opinion any conclusion your theory may reach is flawed."

How far was JT from the corner when she first saw him?

[Brietta]

"Jane Tanner is quite explicit in stating exactly where she was and I think her statement carries the weight of the fact she is witness to the event.

If you don't take her estimation of distance into consideration in my opinion any conclusion your theory may reach is flawed."

How far was JT from the corner when she first saw him?

"Just as I got to the top ... "
She could not have seen him from any distance away (eg the tapas doorway) until hereached the junction prior to crossing the road.