Will we ever find out what happened to Madeleine McCann?

[misty]

She lived permanently above the apartment and would have been very familiar with all comings and goings.



Mrs Fenn standing on her balcony which was immediately above apartment 5a.

After dark, from her sitting room, she could have seen precisely what going on downstairs? Even on her balcony, she couldn't have seen if anyone was sitting on the patio underneath her & she certainly didn't tell the PJ she saw people going in & out the side gate during the week. So- how did she know the parents (plural) didn't hear one of their children crying on the Tuesday night?

[John]

After dark, from her sitting room, she could have seen precisely what going on downstairs? Even on her balcony, she couldn't have seen if anyone was sitting on the patio underneath her & she certainly didn't tell the PJ she saw people going in & out the side gate during the week. So- how did she know the parents (plural) didn't hear one of their children crying on the Tuesday night?

Because the crying went on for over an hour until the parents returned.  As you know, she telephoned her friend to ask her advice as to whether she should intervene and Alpert reception. We also know she had to go out the following evening because she was so perturbed by the event.

[misty]

Because the crying went on for over an hour until the parents returned.  As you know, she telephoned her friend to ask her advice as to whether she should intervene and Alpert reception. We also know she had to go out the following evening because she was so perturbed by the event.

Do you have cites for most of the content of your post, please?

[John]

Do you have cites for most of the content of your post, please?

Its all there in the files and has been previously discussed on here several times.

Tue. 1 May:  Mrs Fenn upset by crying from apartment below which went on for over an hour.
Wed. 2 May: Mrs Fenn goes out to spend evening with her friend.
Thur. 3 May: Mrs Fenn at home and offers to phone police when told child had gone missing.

It was the morning of the 3rd May that Kate McCann reported that Madeleine had made the "cried" remark.

[misty]

snipped

"When questioned, she said that she did not know the cause of the crying, perhaps a nightmare or another destabilising factor.
As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.
That night she contacted a friend called EDNA GLYN, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23.00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.
She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night"

No dispute she stated she heard crying for an hour. Where are the parts saying she asked EG about intervening or alerting reception and that she went out the following night because she was so perturbed?

[sadie]

Yes we do know and your constant attempts to rewrite history won't work.  Mrs Fenn stated categorically that the moment the McCanns opened THEIR patio door the CRYING STOPPED.  Go work that out!!!

Please do not insult me.

No-one knows for sure whose child was crying when Mrs Fenn heard crying.

1)   Most elderly people have hearing loss and if mainly in one ear, her hearing would be distorted and she would hear sounds that she believed to be from a certain direction, when it was from another direction altogether

2)  It was the wrong night to the night that Madeleine talked about.  It was May 1st when Mrs Fenn heard the crying and not May 2nd that Madeleine talked about.  Wrong night!

3)  Had Madeleine and S**n been crying then Mrs Fenn would presumably have heard two children crying.  She only heard one.  Yet another anomoly

4)   According to her statement, Mrs Fenn had never heard the ?Mccann? patio doors being opened  other than on May 1st.  Strange that she only heard them then.  Makes me wonder if it was someone elses door that was being opened.

5)  Do we catagorically know whether The Paynes remembered to switch their listening device on.  Were the batteries good?



I am not claiming that my queries abouit possible events are correct, BUT there is TOO MUCH DOUBT TO CATAGORICALLY BLAME The Mccanns for the crying child on May 1st ... ... and then in such uncertain circumstances to claim that no-one checked the Mccann children that night for at least an hour and a quarter



My personal thoughts are that Mrs Fenn suffered mono-lateral hearing loss and consequently misunderstood the direction that the crying was coming from ... and The Paynes listening device was either accidentally switched off ... or battery dead.


But we just dont know, do we?   Certainly unsafe to change dates and assume stuff that we do not know. 

And very UNJUST, IMO, to say the the Mccanns were away for at least an hour and a quarter, based upon insufficient evidence.

[slartibartfast]

Please do not insult me.

No-one knows for sure whose child was crying when Mrs Fenn heard crying.

1)   Most elderly people have hearing loss and if mainly in one ear, her hearing would be distorted and she would hear sounds that she believed to be from a certain direction, when it was from another direction altogether

2)  It was the wrong night to the night that Madeleine talked about.  It was May 1st when Mrs Fenn heard the crying and not May 2nd that Madeleine talked about.  Wrong night!

3)  Had Madeleine and S**n been crying then Mrs Fenn would presumably have heard two children crying.  She only heard one.  Yet another anomoly

4)   According to her statement, Mrs Fenn had never heard the ?Mccann? patio doors being opened  other than on May 1st.  Strange that she only heard them then.  Makes me wonder if it was someone elses door that was being opened.

5)  Do we catagorically know whether The Paynes remembered to switch their listening device on.  Were the batteries good?



I am not claiming that my queries abouit possible events are correct, BUT there is TOO MUCH DOUBT TO CATAGORICALLY BLAME The Mccanns for the crying child on May 1st ... ... and then in such uncertain circumstances to claim that no-one checked the Mccann children that night for at least an hour and a quarter



My personal thoughts are that Mrs Fenn suffered mono-lateral hearing loss and consequently misunderstood the direction that the crying was coming from ... and The Paynes listening device was either accidentally switched off ... or battery dead.


But we just dont know, do we?   Certainly unsafe to change dates and assume stuff that we do not know. 

And very UNJUST, IMO, to say the the Mccanns were away for at least an hour and a quarter, based upon insufficient evidence.

So now some has to have hearing loss and technology not working to reduce blame on the McCanns.

[Robittybob1]

Please do not insult me.

No-one knows for sure whose child was crying when Mrs Fenn heard crying.

1)   Most elderly people have hearing loss and if mainly in one ear, her hearing would be distorted and she would hear sounds that she believed to be from a certain direction, when it was from another direction altogether

2)  It was the wrong night to the night that Madeleine talked about.  It was May 1st when Mrs Fenn heard the crying and not May 2nd that Madeleine talked about.  Wrong night!

3)  Had Madeleine and S**n been crying then Mrs Fenn would presumably have heard two children crying.  She only heard one.  Yet another anomoly

4)   According to her statement, Mrs Fenn had never heard the ?Mccann? patio doors being opened  other than on May 1st.  Strange that she only heard them then.  Makes me wonder if it was someone elses door that was being opened.

5)  Do we catagorically know whether The Paynes remembered to switch their listening device on.  Were the batteries good?



I am not claiming that my queries abouit possible events are correct, BUT there is TOO MUCH DOUBT TO CATAGORICALLY BLAME The Mccanns for the crying child on May 1st ... ... and then in such uncertain circumstances to claim that no-one checked the Mccann children that night for at least an hour and a quarter



My personal thoughts are that Mrs Fenn suffered mono-lateral hearing loss and consequently misunderstood the direction that the crying was coming from ... and The Paynes listening device was either accidentally switched off ... or battery dead.


But we just dont know, do we?   Certainly unsafe to change dates and assume stuff that we do not know. 

And very UNJUST, IMO, to say the the Mccanns were away for at least an hour and a quarter, based upon insufficient evidence.

I think you raise a very good point Sadie  - just how reliable was the Payne's baby monitor for they admit never checking their kids, so they never had an actual event that tested the machine IMO.

[jassi]

I think you raise a very good point Sadie  - just how reliable was the Payne's baby monitor for they admit never checking their kids, so they never had an actual event that tested the machine IMO.

Fortunately they didn't lose either of their children so the question of the effectiveness of  baby listening devices didn't arise

[Alice Purjorick]

I think you raise a very good point Sadie  - just how reliable was the Payne's baby monitor for they admit never checking their kids, so they never had an actual event that tested the machine IMO.

That is an interesting concept.

[Miss Taken Identity]

That is an interesting concept.

indeed it is...

with the revelation of Tanner man being removed and the varied time-line which allowed for him to exist with a jimmied shutter/opendoor entry exit. We need to ask IF we believe Gerry and his adoring dada moment. If the children never had a physical check by anyone since being put to bed. That is a very long time for a child to leave the apartment and 'go missing'? if we believe the parents had no input in her disappearance.

The last night DP claimed he  saw MBM was strange to say the least.

[Robittybob1]

indeed it is...

with the revelation of Tanner man being removed and the varied time-line which allowed for him to exist with a jimmied shutter/opendoor entry exit. We need to ask IF we believe Gerry and his adoring dada moment. If the children never had a physical check by anyone since being put to bed. That is a very long time for a child to leave the apartment and 'go missing'? if we believe the parents had no input in her disappearance.

The last night DP claimed he  saw MBM was strange to say the least.

You argument seemed to lack detail.  In fact I couldn't understand it.

[jassi]

indeed it is...

with the revelation of Tanner man being removed and the varied time-line which allowed for him to exist with a jimmied shutter/opendoor entry exit. We need to ask IF we believe Gerry and his adoring dada moment. If the children never had a physical check by anyone since being put to bed. That is a very long time for a child to leave the apartment and 'go missing'? if we believe the parents had no input in her disappearance.

The last night DP claimed he  saw MBM was strange to say the least.

I always considered that absolute rubbish - very much a case of over-egging the pudding and simple oozing sentimentality and insincerity IMO

[Carana]

I think you raise a very good point Sadie  - just how reliable was the Payne's baby monitor for they admit never checking their kids, so they never had an actual event that tested the machine IMO.

What makes you think they didn't test it?

[Brietta]

What makes you think they didn't test it?

In my opinion they probably did.

Do I remember an account that one of the other couples had a monitor but decided not to use it because the range was a bit iffy?