Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?

[AnneGuedes]

It seems that the postulation is that those nasty Portuguese people are hiding things and sweeping things under the carpet for reasons that have yet to be quantified. Precisely what is being swept under the carpet has not been not quantified either. At present it is perm any one from 3. But whatever it is the "sources" of the information on which the postulation is founded are an article in the Grauniad and Kate McCanns book. Neither of which are actually sources at all, merely conduits passing on information that may or may not be accurate each to satisfy their own agenda.
Thus far all that has been established is that there has been at least one case of instutionalised child abuse in Portugal in which officialdom may have been complicit and that some children go missing each year in Portugal. So pretty much like every other country in Europe unless of course one places credence on the "lawless hinterland" of Portugal as defined by Dave Edgar?
Dear old Dave must have been watching Deliverance and Southern Comfort for his ideas.
So not much there then to prove anything. Bearing in mind one is trying to prove or disprove the theory that Madeleine McCann was abducted and it was more likely in Portugal (PdL) than anywhere else.

All theories of conspiracy function the same way : if the PJ site lists only 3 missing children in Portugal (one of them, Guinean, supposed to have died in Spain in a car accident and another being the only Portuguese one, the third being British Madeleine), it proves that the Portuguese hide missing children !

[Carana]

All theories of conspiracy function the same way : if the PJ site lists only 3 missing children in Portugal (one of them, Guinean, supposed to have died in Spain in a car accident and another being the only Portuguese one, the third being British Madeleine), it proves that the Portuguese hide missing children !

All it shows is the missing people whose descriptions were uploaded and are still on the PJ missing persons' page.

[Sherlock Holmes]

So statistics of children who were abducted  ,  but NOT  from their beds,  can be presented as relevant to Madeleine McCann 

Whilst statistics of children who  were  abducted from their beds  are  not  necessary because they  are NOT relevant to Madeleine McCann  ?

Pervese logic indeed

Who would say such a thing?

There are no statistics relating to abduction from beds in Europe - so how could they be relevant or irrelevant to Madeleine McCann? Or 'necessary' or not?

[Carana]

Not what I was saying at all.

What is not logical is to state that because there are no statistics involving a bed, Madeleine cannot have been abducted.

There are several cases around Europe of children who have been abducted from their gardens and from close to their homes and parents, and to suggest that Madeleine cannot possibly be part of that statistic is making  the criteria unnecessarily narrow.

That makes sense to me, Sherlock.

[Sherlock Holmes]

That makes sense to me, Sherlock.

It makes sense to me too, Carana! 

And a pretty simple and straighforward point it is too.

The repeated misquotations and misrepresentations of it, however, seem to be many.

[Silkywhiskers]

How ridiculous.

Even if there had been 100 children "abducted", in bed or out of it, it has ZERO bearing to this case.

The evidence tells us what happened.

Unfortunately for them, Tannerman  represents a massive hole in their story which cannot be undone.

Weaving a tangled web does leave you nowhere to hide, when its being unravelled publicly.

[Sherlock Holmes]

How ridiculous.

Even if there had been 100 children "abducted", in bed or out of it, it has ZERO bearing to this case.

The evidence tells us what happened.

Unfortunately for them, Tannerman  represents a massive hole in their story which cannot be undone.

Weaving a tangled web does leave you nowhere to hide, when its being unravelled publicly.

Correct. Statistics mean nothing in the individual case - as is regularly noted.

[Carana]

Correct. Statistics mean nothing in the individual case - as is regularly noted.

Again, I agree. I'm not aware of statistics concerning two commercial jets deliberately flying into skyscrapers... but sadly and with respect for those affected, it happened.

[AnneGuedes]

All it shows is the missing people whose descriptions were uploaded and are still on the PJ missing persons' page.

The PJ site lists the persons reported missing.
3 missing children in 10 years ! Since the Guinean little girl is supposed to have died in a car crash in Spain, though the PJ doesn't seem to believe it, perhaps 2,  one of them being Madeleine McCann, the only abducted one, the other one having been  abducted by her own father (and not from bed).

[AnneGuedes]

The OP is about prevalence of abduction in Portugal and not about the probability of abduction from bed in Europe.

[sadie]

Pre pubescent children (under 15 y.o.) in mainland Portugal disappeared / possibly stranger abducted.

Note
BLUE represents the north mainly in and to the north of Porto
RED represents the south around PdL


The disappearances and possible abductions started seriously in the north of PT, in the area of Porto and north of there, spreading towards Guimares in an easterly direction.

1.  1991 Jorge Sepulveda, aged 14, disappeared from the Masserelos district of Porto.



2.  1994  Claudia Silva e Sousa, aged 7, disappeared from Oleiros, Vila Verde, Braga. Believed to have been taken by two men and forced to get inside a car.


 
3.  1996  Rene Hasee (German boy on holiday), aged 6, disappeared from Amoreiras beach, Aljezur, [Atlantic] Algarve .. (approx 18 miles PdL)



4.  1998  Rui Pedro Mendonca, aged 11 or 12, taken from Lousada, Porto. It is now believed that this child was taken abroad and is in the hands of a paedophile network.



5.  1999  Rui Periera, aged 13 or 14, from Vila Nova de Famalicao, Braga.  Believed seen in Switzerland with two Italian men.



On the internet I read on a forum that the son of an elite had been picked up by the PJ  in the north [and ?charged?]  but released with a warning.  That was whitewashed out after I mentioned it on forum.  A friend, Catkins, also saw another mention in a somewhat similar vein.  She can no longer find her reference either, IIRC.

The abductions ceased in 1999, after the warning,  for 5 years.   Except for in Madeira IIRC, but here I think the father sold his child.

They started up again in the Algarve near PdL. after the 5 Year gap.


6.  2004  Joana Cipriano, aged 7 or 8, disappeared from Figueira, Algarve (7 miles from PdL). Mother and uncle convicted of murder but body has never been found.



7.  Xmas day 2006,  Carolina Santos, aged 3, attempted abduction from near Silves (approx 18 miles from  PdL).  Parents came out of cafe to find Carolina being led away by a man.



8.  May 2007,  Madeleine McCann, aged nearly 4, disappeared from holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, while her parents dined nearby.




I have not included Titania/ Odete Freeman, aged about 3, who was passed around via three parts of the family and had three different names.  No-one knew what had happened to her, including which part of the family she was with when she vanished, according to reports.  Later they said she had died in an accident in Spain .


I am not aware of any newer cases but I haven't been searching for the past 4 or 5 years.


Please note that all the northern disappearances were clustered within an area of no more that about 32 miles across in Porto and to the north  and east of there

All the southern disappearances, including Rene Hasee, were clustered within an area of about 25 miles across with the centre being near PdL

.... and there is approximately 300 miles between the two clusters.


NO other cases in the relevant age group anywhere else in mainland Portugal ... just in the two clusters only and 300 miles apart


[This post has been edited in terms of the forum policy on publishing factual information]

[Silkywhiskers]

All of which proves.....

NOTHING.

I've got statistics too - 90% old abducted children are taken by someone they know.

If your examples remain "unsolved" there is STILL a 90% chance it was someone they know.  This statistic doesn't change from one society to another.

Children's most risk filled environment,  statistically speaking, is home sweet home.

[sadie]

All of which proves.....

NOTHING.

I've got statistics too - 90% old abducted children are taken by someone they know.

If your examples remain "unsolved" there is STILL a 90% chance it was someone they know.  This statistic doesn't change from one society to another.

Children's most risk filled environment,  statistically speaking, is home sweet home.

Oh how strange that YOU should rubbish them.  SY were interested and came back to me on it.

But then i guess YOU know best.

[sadie]

All of which proves.....

NOTHING.

I've got statistics too - 90% old abducted children are taken by someone they know.

If your examples remain "unsolved" there is STILL a 90% chance it was someone they know.  This statistic doesn't change from one society to another.

Children's most risk filled environment,  statistically speaking, is home sweet home.

So your comment Silkywhiskers, was all sweetness and light?  Was it?


Why is it that everything I say, you see fit to rubbish.  What is it to you?

[Silkywhiskers]

So your comment Silkywhiskers, was all sweetness and light?  Was it?


Why is it that everything I say, you see fit to rubbish.  What is it to you?

Relax.

If you're going to post your views online you've got to expect rebuttal.

Particularly if your arguments are ridiculous or based on fallacy.  Which yours are.

If you can't cope with the big meanies online, perhaps get a more soothing hobby.

PS I've seen you say some horrible things to other posters BTW.