Witnesses claimed to have seen Robert Murat the night Maddie disappeared.

[pegasus]

You have already dismissed their identification.
What other independent sources were there?

They were right about there being a man there that night translating. I'm not dismissing that. No way would they make that up. The one thing these honest witnesses got wrong was their identification days later of that man as RM.   

[misty]

They were right about there being a man there that night translating. I'm not dismissing that. No way would they make that up. The one thing these honest witnesses got wrong was their identification days later of that man as RM.   

Close up & personal, Pegasus, doesn't normally result in 3 or 4 people all making the same identification error.

According to their statements, the officers in attendance that night were all asked if they saw RM in the immediate aftermath.
What explanation would there be as to why they weren't asked if they saw or communicated with a man who resembled RM, or why none of them would have volunteered such information?

[Carana]

Close up & personal, Pegasus, doesn't normally result in 3 or 4 people all making the same identification error.

According to their statements, the officers in attendance that night were all asked if they saw RM in the immediate aftermath.
What explanation would there be as to why they weren't asked if they saw or communicated with a man who resembled RM, or why none of them would have volunteered such information?

Possibly because the PJ were after Murat at the time and didn't think beyond that. In the same vein as dismissing Tannerman without checking the evening crèche records, or thinking to ask anyone if they themselves or anyone they knew was carrying their own child that evening.

[pegasus]

Close up & personal, Pegasus, doesn't normally result in 3 or 4 people all making the same identification error.
...(snip)

Yes but in most cases there aren't two similar looking people, this case was unusual because there were.
I'm not just theorising here, I'm also working from visual evidence at the scene.

[pegasus]

BTW the 4th May statements were done in two batches, GM KM MO DP JT were taken to Portimão morning 4th May, then RO FP ROB DW were taken to Portimão in afternoon 4th May.

Now here's a coincidence - the 3 witnesses RO FP ROB, who later flew to Portugal mid-June for the confrontation with RM, had all been in the afternoon batch on May 4th - none of them were in the morning batch.

[Brietta]

BTW the 4th May statements were done in two batches, GM KM MO DP JT were taken to Portimão morning 4th May, then RO FP ROB DW were taken to Portimão in afternoon 4th May.

Now here's a coincidence - the 3 witnesses RO FP ROB, who later flew to Portugal mid-June for the confrontation with RM, had all been in the afternoon batch on May 4th - none of them were in the morning batch.

What significance do you give to that, Pegasus?

[misty]

Yes but in most cases there aren't two similar looking people, this case was unusual because there were.
I'm not just theorising here, I'm also working from visual evidence at the scene.

If you have visual evidence of the scene that night then you have the rest of us at a disadvantage.

FP -saw this person when KM was inside 5a on night of 3rd
DP -saw said person presumably just after GNR arrived & SB had arrived - so at OC reception or 5a?
ROB- "That he saw Murat for the first time at this moment in the Rua Silva in front of the apartment where the events occurred, near to the parking area."
RO -'Erm well most of the time I spent talking to Jane and sort of checking on Grace, erm and saw, I remember the nannies coming up to talk to us, some of the Mark WARNER nannies and they'd been searching and looking round the village and sort of you know, rallying friends and people that they knew, erm I mean we were waiting for the Police for a lot of that time cos they didn't turn up for ages, erm and, and then when the GNR did arrive, erm you know, they came to say hello and erm Sylvia was there with them and so was Robert MURAT, erm there were other people sort of milling around in the background but Sylvia introduced herself and so did Robert MURAT, erm I mean he just introduced himself to me as Robert and we shook hands, erm and then sort of remember talking to somebody from I think, think (inaudible) one of the apartments on the floor above, sort of an older guy, kind of said oh he went missing when he was a child for about ten days and he, and he, you know he came back again sort of thing, well he was, I can't remember whether he said he was taken or, it wasn't that he'd run away, I mean maybe he sort of too young to remember or something but he said that he was missing and he'd reappeared, erm and yeah just and then erm after the Police arrived, erm I mean we were just you know talking about what we should do and then I thought of ringing James LANDALE and you know seeing if we could get it on the news, erm and made those phone calls, erm and then the PJ arrived"


If the PJ believed RM & his alibi, then why did they call 3 witnesses back for a "confrontation"?

[misty]

The Tapas group had no reason to lie about RM  or anyone else who was on the scene. Living in close proximity, he would have had a legitimate reason to be there, had he heard the noise outside. But he only heard sirens and his dogs seemingly never alerted at all.

[stephen25000]

The Tapas group had no reason to lie about RM  or anyone else who was on the scene. Living in close proximity, he would have had a legitimate reason to be there, had he heard the noise outside. But he only heard sirens and his dogs seemingly never alerted at all.

You say they had no reason to lie about RM ?

Yet he was put in the frame by people who 'saw' him there.

[faithlilly]

If you have visual evidence of the scene that night then you have the rest of us at a disadvantage.

FP -saw this person when KM was inside 5a on night of 3rd
DP -saw said person presumably just after GNR arrived & SB had arrived - so at OC reception or 5a?
ROB- "That he saw Murat for the first time at this moment in the Rua Silva in front of the apartment where the events occurred, near to the parking area."
RO -'Erm well most of the time I spent talking to Jane and sort of checking on Grace, erm and saw, I remember the nannies coming up to talk to us, some of the Mark WARNER nannies and they'd been searching and looking round the village and sort of you know, rallying friends and people that they knew, erm I mean we were waiting for the Police for a lot of that time cos they didn't turn up for ages, erm and, and then when the GNR did arrive, erm you know, they came to say hello and erm Sylvia was there with them and so was Robert MURAT, erm there were other people sort of milling around in the background but Sylvia introduced herself and so did Robert MURAT, erm I mean he just introduced himself to me as Robert and we shook hands, erm and then sort of remember talking to somebody from I think, think (inaudible) one of the apartments on the floor above, sort of an older guy, kind of said oh he went missing when he was a child for about ten days and he, and he, you know he came back again sort of thing, well he was, I can't remember whether he said he was taken or, it wasn't that he'd run away, I mean maybe he sort of too young to remember or something but he said that he was missing and he'd reappeared, erm and yeah just and then erm after the Police arrived, erm I mean we were just you know talking about what we should do and then I thought of ringing James LANDALE and you know seeing if we could get it on the news, erm and made those phone calls, erm and then the PJ arrived"


If the PJ believed RM & his alibi, then why did they call 3 witnesses back for a "confrontation"?

Obviously by the shelving of the case the PJ did believe Murat's alibi as he was released from his arguido status without a stain on his character. Or are you saying that even when the AG declares you innocent you may not be ?

[misty]

You say they had no reason to lie about RM ?

Yet he was put in the frame by people who 'saw' him there.

No, he was under suspicion because of his behaviour with the media & excessive interest in the police investigation of which he was playing a part.
Anyone out on the street on the night of the 3rd was a potential suspect, not just RM.
Suspicion against him grew when he changed his alibi.

[misty]

Obviously by the shelving of the case the PJ did believe Murat's alibi as he was released from his arguido status without a stain on his character. Or are you saying that even when the AG declares you innocent you may not be ?

Has there been an 8 year hate campaign waged against RM & demands for him to be jailed?

[stephen25000]

No, he was under suspicion because of his behaviour with the media & excessive interest in the police investigation of which he was playing a part.
Anyone out on the street on the night of the 3rd was a potential suspect, not just RM.
Suspicion against him grew when he changed his alibi.

'...because of his behaviour with the media & excessive interest..'

He offered to help translate I recall.

How many other people were there and offered to help Misty ?

How many others looked like David Payne ?

[misty]

'...because of his behaviour with the media & excessive interest..'

He offered to help translate I recall.

How many other people were there and offered to help Misty ?

How many others looked like David Payne ?

Many people got involved with the searches, Stephen, but there was only one who was constantly questioning the police about what they had discovered & attempting to view official documents.
 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm
960 to 961 Results of informal    conversation with Robert Murat 2007.05.11 - Inspector Pedro Varanda

How many others "looked like DP" & spoke Portuguese and smoked?

[slartibartfast]

No, he was under suspicion because of his behaviour with the media & excessive interest in the police investigation of which he was playing a part.
Anyone out on the street on the night of the 3rd was a potential suspect, not just RM.
Suspicion against him grew when he changed his alibi.

Yes it applies to a few people.