Group timeline after Madeleine's disappearance + Control Risks Emma Knights etc.

[faithlilly]

Emma Knight was first to be apartment to get a description of missing Madeleine. Only Kate and Fiona were present at that time around 10:20pm.

So when Fiona was told by Jane that she had seen someone carrying a child Fiona already knew what Madeleine was wearing that night. Is it really believable that she and Jane wouldn’t have compared the descriptions?

[Robittybob1]

Emma Knight was first to be apartment to get a description of missing Madeleine. Only Kate and Fiona were present at that time around 10:20pm.

That can't be true, Emma testifies she was only informed by phone at 10:17 PM and at that time  the name of the missing person wasn't discussed so how could she go to the McCann's apartment so quickly?

You need to show me a cite to back up your claim please.

[pathfinder73]

I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

[G-Unit]

In her rogatory statement she may confirm all these points (I seem to recollect some of them) but that is really with hindsight.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm   "Witness statement of Emma Louise Knight (Hotel Manager) 2008.04.30"

1. "In March 2007 I travelled to the Mark Warner complex in Praia da Luz, Portugal. My position was Client Support Manager and my function was to receive and welcome the new guests and be available to resolve any problem that might arise during their stay."

2.  "At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'."

So how did Lyndsey find out prior to 22.17? 

Lyndsey says "She indicates that on May 3rd 2007, at around 10.20pm, she was informed by her colleague Amy T. that Madeleine McCann had disappeared. At that, she immediately launched the "missing child" procedure. This procedure consists of dividing the site into several areas, which are allocated to various of the company's employees to start searching for the missing child."

So it was Amy who put a name on the missing girl, but Amy had been working at the night creche and she had to walk from there to the McCann's apartment (a 10 minute walk I believe), confirm with Kate that Madeleine was really missing and then to walk over to her office at the tapas and ring Lyndsey who then rang Emma Knights at 10:17 PM.
10 minute walk from night creche to G5A
5 minute check to confirm Madeleine not in the apartment
2 minutes walk back to office and to ring Lyndsay

That means Amy Tierney suspected the missing girl was Madeleine  earlier than Kate started off on her check at 10:00 or 10:03 if we accept Gerry's statement.

Now to make matters worse the lady who told Amy had to speak to someone out on the street looking for Maddie, so either she or the man had to also make the 5 -10 minute walk from 5A over to the night creche.  And then to communicate with the girls in the night creche (a couple of minutes sorting that out.)

So that means to me that the latest that man was aware Madeleine was missing was 9:48 PM i.e. a good 20 minutes before Kate returned to the Tapas with her alarm. at 10:03 plus 5 minutes for her check and return.= i.e. 10:08 Alarm raised by Kate.

Who was this man who informed the lady who picked up her daughter from the night creche?

The problem with Amy is that she claims to have seen the open window and shutters. No-one else makes that claim, so how to explain it? If the alarm was raised at 10 pm and the woman told the creche workers after 10 pm then Amy couldn't have seen the open window and shutters because Gerry closed the shutters when he entered the apartment after Kate raised the alarm.

[Robittybob1]

The problem with Amy is that she claims to have seen the open window and shutters. No-one else makes that claim, so how to explain it? If the alarm was raised at 10 pm and the woman told the creche workers after 10 pm then Amy couldn't have seen the open window and shutters because Gerry closed the shutters when he entered the apartment after Kate raised the alarm.

Howabout reading what I wrote.  I had proved that there was someone aware that Madeleine was missing at least 20 minutes before Kate came back to the Tapas Restaurant saying Madeleine was missing.
So that allows for Amy to be heading to the apartment 10 minutes or so before Kate returns. Amy therefore arrives at the time around when Kate and Gerry are there before the window has been shut.

[pathfinder73]

DW was inside the apartment at that time and said Kate was alone with the twins. I've never heard her mention Amy arriving nor Kate so it's most unlikely.

[Robittybob1]

DW was inside the apartment at that time and said Kate was alone with the twins. I've never heard her mention Amy arriving nor Kate so it's most unlikely.

Dianne Webster would have been sitting at the table when this was happening.  So she would have missed Amy arriving altogether.

[Robittybob1]

Emma Knight was first to be apartment to get a description of missing Madeleine. Only Kate and Fiona were present at that time around 10:20pm.

You need to back this up with a timeline PF.

[G-Unit]

Howabout reading what I wrote.  I had proved that there was someone aware that Madeleine was missing at least 20 minutes before Kate came back to the Tapas Restaurant saying Madeleine was missing.
So that allows for Amy to be heading to the apartment 10 minutes or so before Kate returns. Amy therefore arrives at the time around when Kate and Gerry are there before the window has been shut.

How could Gerry be in the apartment before the alarm was raised?

[jassi]

Dianne Webster would have been sitting at the table when this was happening.  So she would have missed Amy arriving altogether.

Can't see how Amy could have arrived before or at around 10 pm How would she know where to go?

[Robittybob1]

Can't see how Amy could have arrived before or at around 10 pm How would she know where to go?

That happened because the nannies who worked the night creche were the same ones that took care of the kids while at creche during the day, so when the  lady coming to collect her child said she had spoken to a "MW client looking for Maddie or Gabby" they realised he was looking for Maddy or Madeleine, and they'd probably look at their register and would have seen the McCanns were booked in at G5A and they went to check it out.

This (checking the register and starting the walk to the apartment) was before or around the time Kate was first  aware Madeleine was missing.
They wouldn't arrive at the apartment until Kate got back from giving the alarm.  Remember it takes about 10 minutes to walk from the creche to the apartments.

[jassi]

That happened because the nannies who worked the night creche were the same ones that took care of the kids while at creche during the day, so when the  lady coming to collect her child said she had spoken to a "MW client looking for Maddie or Gabby" they realised he was looking for Maddy or Madeleine, and they'd probably look at their register and would have seen the McCanns were booked in at G5A and they went to check it out.

This (checking the register and starting the walk to the apartment) was before or around the time Kate was first  aware Madeleine was missing.
They wouldn't arrive at the apartment until Kate got back from giving the alarm.  Remember it takes about 10 minutes to walk from the creche to the apartments.

That's an awful lot of supposition, IMO.
Theoretically the 'missing 'child might never have been in the creche system, so unknown to the nannies.

[Robittybob1]

How could Gerry be in the apartment before the alarm was raised?

My sentence may have needed an extra coma or full stop.
"So that allows for Amy to be heading to the apartment 10 minutes or so before Kate returns (after giving the alarm). Amy therefore arrives at G5A around the time when Kate and Gerry are there.  That is before the window has been shut.  Therefore Amy sees the window open and shutters still up.

[pathfinder73]

You need to back this up with a timeline PF.

 "At the beginning of the procedure I went to the McCanns apartment" EK - that would be around 10:20pm. A simple deduction from 10:17pm. I've provided her statement already in my previous post. You seem to have a hard time with what people actually say.

[G-Unit]

My sentence may have needed an extra coma or full stop.
"So that allows for Amy to be heading to the apartment 10 minutes or so before Kate returns (after giving the alarm). Amy therefore arrives at G5A around the time when Kate and Gerry are there.  That is before the window has been shut.  Therefore Amy sees the window open and shutters still up.

Gerry, Kate, David and Fiona entered the apartment. David and Fiona ran off and searched. Gerry closed the shutters. Then he left and Dianne arrived. After she left Fiona came back.

When Amy got there there were three people there. Kate, Gerry and a female friend. No female friend saw the window and shutters open.