Amaral and the dogs

[ferryman]

See also the study on the same csst site which found that a minimum of 85 minutes post-mortem interval was required for even one of their five dogs to alert.
Compare that with Mr Amaral's theory which has PMI commencing hypothetiacally at the earliest at 9.10pm (chat outside window) and add the csst minimum 85 minutes to that which gives at earliest 10.35pm which obviously would make it impossible the Smith sighting is relevant. IMO Amaral's theory (sofa during chat + smith sighting) doesn't work.

I would omit 3 letters from the sentence I underline: IMO!

[Brietta]

a very interesting article ...read the whole of it ...it gives some good pointers how false positives can occur..
a dog repeatedly called back will get tired and alert just to end the search....very interesting. No wonder Grime thought it important to point out that without confirmation the alerts should not be taken as evidence

IMO Mr Grime knew exactly what was going on with the dogs which is why he gave no hostages to fortune in the statements of record.  I think he may have overestimated the Portuguese understanding of the checks as he was used to working with British police forces who understood the need for corroborative evidence.

[sadie]

1. So Eddie was trained as a Rescue Dog at first,  Therefore he would have been trained to find live human beings, 

For that he would need to be trained as a Decomp Dog to recognise the scents of human tissue, urine, semen, blood, etc. + materials handled (worn) by live humans

Decomp Dog
A term used to describe a canine that will indicate when a scent source is human tissue, blood, semen, urine, feces, and materials that have been handled and worn by humans; often cross trained for other purposes.

2.  Later he was trained as a Cadaver dog, or so we are told.

But is Eddie truly a Cadavar Dog?   

Cadaver Dog
A narrow term, used in a search-and-rescue context, to indicate a canine primarily trained as a tracking or air-scent dog that has also received cross training in the location of dead human bodies.  But he found NO dead bodies !



So Cadavar dog does not cover what Eddie was supposed to do.  He was not specifically trained to search and rescue, nor tracking, nor air-scent work ... and he wasn't actually finding any dead bodies


3.  In reality Eddie is a Forensic Search Dog .... or he should be for the work he was doing. 



Forensic Search Dog (The primary focus of this paper)
A canine that has been specifically trained to indicate a scent source as being from decomposed human tissue. Such animals are also trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, feces, and semen and will not alert on residual scent from a live human; **** and have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.****


4.  At different periods,

a)  Eddie was trained to look for living humans with their urine, blood, living tissue, etc scents

b)  Eddie was trained to scent sources from decomposed human tissue.  Such as a Forensic Search Dog and he was not supposed to alert to the residual scent of a live human


5.  Poor dog.  Eddie received two opposing sets of training. 

No wonder he appeared a bit schizophrenic when he was racing around the cars



To remind you,

The Forensic Search Dog, which Eddie actually was

**** should have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.****


With thanks to Lace and http://csst.org/forensic_evidence_canines.html

[pegasus]

If we hypothesise something happening as late as say 9.45pm then hypothetically adding 1 hour and 25 minutes would be even after GNR searched apartment, how ridiculous is that?
Is there is any other study which says the CSST study was wrong?

[pathfinder73]

See also the study on the same csst site which found that a minimum of 85 minutes post-mortem interval was required for even one of their five dogs to alert.
Compare that with Mr Amaral's theory which has PMI commencing hypothetiacally at the earliest at 9.10pm (chat outside window) and add the csst minimum 85 minutes to that which gives at earliest 10.35pm which obviously would make it impossible the Smith sighting is relevant. IMO Amaral's theory (sofa during chat + smith sighting) doesn't work.

Inconsistencies - first at 6:30, second at 9:10 and third at 10:03.

[pegasus]

Inconsistencies - first at 6:30, second at 9:10 and third at 10:03.

Your theory (which I don't agree with) would need either to provide a minimum 1 hour 25 minutes in the first location, or to find other research which disproves the CSST study (which found that minimum time).

[Eleanor]

This is what I have been saying for years.  Eddie was not a proper Cadaver Dog.  This is not a criticism, merely a fact.  And Martin Grime knew this.
Of course he could find Cadavers, if there was one. 
Amaral simply didn't understand any of this.

[Mr Gray]

So without confirmation...for lots of reasons...the alerts are meaningless...which is why Grime was so guarded...amaral just didn't understand

[mercury]

Your theory (which I don't agree with) would need either to provide a minimum 1 hour 25 minutes in the first location, or to find other research which disproves the CSST study (which found that minimum time).

Not necessarily. Something could have happened to the child indoors at any time if the parents did not check them, or didn't notice, before or after going out.

[G-Unit]

Not necessarily. Something could have happened to the child indoors at any time if the parents did not check them, or didn't notice, before or after going out.

The child was last seen at 5.30pm by strangers. Loads of time for anything to occur.

[mercury]

The child was last seen at 5.30pm by strangers. Loads of time for anything to occur.

Yup, thats what the PJ final report said, IIRC,something about not being able to establish what occurred between 5.30 and 10

[Mr Gray]

if Maddie had an accident and died between 5.30 and 8.30...no need for a cover up

[mercury]

if Maddie had an accident and died between 5.30 and 8.30...no need for a cover up

The tmeline is 5.30 to 10 (ish)

[Mr Gray]

The tmeline is 5.30 to 10 (ish)

we are told 85 mins for cadaver in situ to develop scent....again...why the cover up if an accident happened before 8.30

[stephen25000]

1. So Eddie was trained as a Rescue Dog at first,  Therefore he would have been trained to find live human beings, 

For that he would need to be trained as a Decomp Dog to recognise the scents of human tissue, urine, semen, blood, etc. + materials handled (worn) by live humans

Decomp Dog
A term used to describe a canine that will indicate when a scent source is human tissue, blood, semen, urine, feces, and materials that have been handled and worn by humans; often cross trained for other purposes.

2.  Later he was trained as a Cadaver dog, or so we are told.

But is Eddie truly a Cadavar Dog?   

Cadaver Dog
A narrow term, used in a search-and-rescue context, to indicate a canine primarily trained as a tracking or air-scent dog that has also received cross training in the location of dead human bodies.  But he found NO dead bodies !



So Cadavar dog does not cover what Eddie was supposed to do.  He was not specifically trained to search and rescue, nor tracking, nor air-scent work ... and he wasn't actually finding any dead bodies


3.  In reality Eddie is a Forensic Search Dog .... or he should be for the work he was doing. 



Forensic Search Dog (The primary focus of this paper)
A canine that has been specifically trained to indicate a scent source as being from decomposed human tissue. Such animals are also trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, feces, and semen and will not alert on residual scent from a live human; **** and have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.****


4.  At different periods,

a)  Eddie was trained to look for living humans with their urine, blood, living tissue, etc scents

b)  Eddie was trained to scent sources from decomposed human tissue.  Such as a Forensic Search Dog and he was not supposed to alert to the residual scent of a live human


5.  Poor dog.  Eddie received two opposing sets of training. 

No wonder he appeared a bit schizophrenic when he was racing around the cars



To remind you,

The Forensic Search Dog, which Eddie actually was

**** should have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.****


With thanks to Lace and http://csst.org/forensic_evidence_canines.html

You let your own blindness, as with other mccann supporters, to be unable to grasp that dogs are very adaptable and can be retrained.