Amaral and the dogs

[G-Unit]

Ian Horrocks.

Paid by the Sun.

As to his track record...

I think Redwood shot him down in flames;

Finally, and in my opinion, the most salient fact is that a male was seen at 9.15pm carrying a child who clearly fits Madeleine’s description. When taking everything together, this was clearly Madeleine, which therefore 100% rules out Mr and Mrs McCann as being involved in any way.

[Brietta]

So, police DO change the  course in an investigation from missing when dogs are brought in, silly UK police hey? Its only the Portuguese who are supposed to do that!

He was questioned as a witness in a missing person case, a status that changed when sniffer dogs indicated that a body had been in Pacteau’s car. DNA samples taken from his apartment showed traces of Ms Buckley’s blood.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/he-robbed-us-of-our-beautiful-daughter-and-sister-buckley-family-issue-statement-690536.html

He was a fantasist who discussed means of disposing of a body.

His image was captured on CCTV in the company of his victim.

He had been acquitted on a rape charge which was alleged to have occurred a short distance from where he battered his victim to death in his car with a spanner.

Traces of his victim were found in his flat where he had changed his mattress after enquiring how to remove blood from his old one.

He purchased caustic soda which he made into a solution in a drum and attempted to dissolve his victim's body in it.

He was familiar with the storage facilities on the farm where he had stored the drum and its contents having rented there before.

Forensic tests on the dirt trapped in the wheel treads of his vehicle showed matches for the soil from the farm where he dumped his victim's remains and from where he dumped her handbag.

That's all I can recall off the top of my head, I'm sure there will be more.


The example you have chosen to equate the value of police dog working bears absolutely no comparison or relation to what happened in Praia da Luz ... it is rather mean spirited of you to suggest such a thing.

[lordpookles]

Interesting posts here on this unknown forum to me:

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t1945-poacher-s-view-on-grime-and-the-dogs

The guy seems to work in the dog handling industry and claims to know Martin Grimes and offers some opinion on the alerts and Grimes himself.

[Brietta]

Interesting posts here on this unknown forum to me:

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t1945-poacher-s-view-on-grime-and-the-dogs

The guy seems to work in the dog handling industry and claims to know Martin Grimes and offers some opinion on the alerts and Grimes himself.

Poacher seems to have made himself persona non grata because of his opinions.

Personally, I think he makes a lot of sense.

"The dog indicated the presence of one spot of blood deposited on a wall, subsequently washed off and left for six weeks.
 
It also indicated the mop and bucket used to wash the walls that had themselves been washed in disinfectant and left for six weeks.

As such the sensitivity of the dog's nose is such that innocent depositions can never be ruled out unless you have a controlled environment which the apartment and the hire car aren't."

In other words, if that example is accurate ... the cleaner mops a contaminated area somewhere in the areas allocated to her.  She washes and disinfects her mop.  She then uses the mop to clean up a spillage elsewhere.

Up to six weeks later, possibly more ... a cadaver dog inspects a room ... runs around daft looking for the scent source he knows is there ... and alerts.

Hardly surprising there is nothing there which can be picked up forensically ... and so a myth is born.

[Alice Purjorick]

Do we know anything conclusive about poachers credentials?

[lordpookles]

Unfortunately not. Just an internet poster, so of course shouldn't be taken too seriously. He says this though:

For the record, as some of you will have worked out, I have worked with Martin Grime and his dogs and that includes setting licensing tests for them. I have also myself worked and trained police dogs though not in this field, and worked and trained with other cadaver dog handlers. I don't have links to these points because they are made from personal experience or are accounts relayed to me by reliable cadaver handlers.

[lordpookles]

Poacher seems to have made himself persona non grata because of his opinions.

Personally, I think he makes a lot of sense.

"The dog indicated the presence of one spot of blood deposited on a wall, subsequently washed off and left for six weeks.
 
It also indicated the mop and bucket used to wash the walls that had themselves been washed in disinfectant and left for six weeks.

As such the sensitivity of the dog's nose is such that innocent depositions can never be ruled out unless you have a controlled environment which the apartment and the hire car aren't."

In other words, if that example is accurate ... the cleaner mops a contaminated area somewhere in the areas allocated to her.  She washes and disinfects her mop.  She then uses the mop to clean up a spillage elsewhere.

Up to six weeks later, possibly more ... a cadaver dog inspects a room ... runs around daft looking for the scent source he knows is there ... and alerts.

Hardly surprising there is nothing there which can be picked up forensically ... and so a myth is born.

If the guy is for real then it certainly adds another perspective. The dog alerts will always be ambiguous without forensic corroboration. He does say as Grimes himself says:

If the dogs indicated in the apartment then it is possible that there was something that they detected that forensic examination failed to find. It might be that the McCanns are guilty. There is enough in my posts to show that this is entirely possible. If you want me to say that the dog's indication proves beyond all doubt that they are guilty then I cannot. There is the slight chance that cross-contamination or other depositions caused one or more of the indications. As previously and repeatedly been said - forensic proves the case not the dogs.

[Alice Purjorick]

If the guy is for real then it certainly adds another perspective. The dog alerts will always be ambiguous without forensic corroboration. He does say as Grimes himself says:

If the dogs indicated in the apartment then it is possible that there was something that they detected that forensic examination failed to find. It might be that the McCanns are guilty. There is enough in my posts to show that this is entirely possible. If you want me to say that the dog's indication proves beyond all doubt that they are guilty then I cannot. There is the slight chance that cross-contamination or other depositions caused one or more of the indications. As previously and repeatedly been said - forensic proves the case not the dogs.

That makes sense to me.

[Eleanor]

Interesting posts here on this unknown forum to me:

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/t1945-poacher-s-view-on-grime-and-the-dogs

The guy seems to work in the dog handling industry and claims to know Martin Grimes and offers some opinion on the alerts and Grimes himself.

Thanks for finding that, Lordpookles.  I had entirely forgotten about it, although I did read it at the time.

So, it is highly unlikely that Eddie was taken to America before Praia da Luz, or trained on Human Cadaver as Martin Grime wasn't there for long enough.

And highly unlikely that Martin Grime was employed by South Yorkshire Police when he went to Praia da Luz.

I shall make no comment about Martin Grime himself, other than to say that Poacher's opinion mirrors mine.

[Mr Gray]

Thanks for finding that, Lordpookles.  I had entirely forgotten about it, although I did read it at the time.

So, it is highly unlikely that Eddie was taken to America before Praia da Luz, or trained on Human Cadaver as Martin Grime wasn't there for long enough.

And highly unlikely that Martin Grime was employed by South Yorkshire Police when he went to Praia da Luz.

I shall make no comment about Martin Grime himself, other than to say that Poacher's opinion mirrors mine.

The fact that it is accepted that Maddie may still be alive says all we need to know about the alerts

[Carana]

I don't know what to make of Poacher. I'm sceptical as this person seems to have had a personal gripe against either Grime or the other agency employing dogs.

I did come across a different HRD handler (US?) who seemed much more objective to me... I've posted the link here before, and will add it again if and when I find it.

ETA:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6311.msg255256#msg255256

[Eleanor]

Whoever Poacher is, it was well written and well explained.

[ferryman]

I don't know what to make of Poacher. I'm sceptical as this person seems to have had a personal gripe against either Grime or the other agency employing dogs.

I did come across a different HRD handler (US?) who seemed much more objective to me... I've posted the link here before, and will add it again if and when I find it.

ETA:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6311.msg255256#msg255256

brit1981
06-21-2012, 12:34 PM
The cadaver dog did not alert to these.
Also here are a few facts
1) Martin Grimes says the alerts mean nothing on their own
2) Grimes and his cadaver dog no longer have a license to practice in the UK as the license was not renewed.
3) British police will no longer work with grimes and his dogs
4) Eddie alerted in an old jersey care home, specifically to a piece of organic material thought to be bone. Experts examined the material eddie alerted to and found it to be coconut shell.
5) when asked about the mistakes grimes said mistakes happen, people are only human. I am not certain if the "only human" was a turn of phrase and he was refering to the dog making a mistake, or if he meant a human had made a mistake in interpreting the dogs signals
6) Grimes also said that the scent can appear through transferance. Tens of people including criminal investigators had been in the flat.
7) Reports have stated that dogs in the UK are not trained well enough for their alerts to be meaningful. They can be helpful when looking for a body, but in no way can be used to identify where there are bodies. this was shown by the care home fiasco when eddie alerted, and the alert turned out to be false and he had alerted to coconut shell.

Sound ....

[stephen25000]

The fact that it is accepted that Maddie may still be alive says all we need to know about the alerts

No it doesn't.

Since the alerts also can signify a death.

Down to probability.

and Mr. Mccann in his interview said 'dogs are incredibly unreliable'.

 &%&£(+ &%&£(+ &%&£(+

[stephen25000]

brit1981
06-21-2012, 12:34 PM
The cadaver dog did not alert to these.
Also here are a few facts
1) Martin Grimes says the alerts mean nothing on their own
2) Grimes and his cadaver dog no longer have a license to practice in the UK as the license was not renewed.
3) British police will no longer work with grimes and his dogs
4) Eddie alerted in an old jersey care home, specifically to a piece of organic material thought to be bone. Experts examined the material eddie alerted to and found it to be coconut shell.
5) when asked about the mistakes grimes said mistakes happen, people are only human. I am not certain if the "only human" was a turn of phrase and he was refering to the dog making a mistake, or if he meant a human had made a mistake in interpreting the dogs signals
6) Grimes also said that the scent can appear through transferance. Tens of people including criminal investigators had been in the flat.
7) Reports have stated that dogs in the UK are not trained well enough for their alerts to be meaningful. They can be helpful when looking for a body, but in no way can be used to identify where there are bodies. this was shown by the care home fiasco when eddie alerted, and the alert turned out to be false and he had alerted to coconut shell.

Sound ....

Don't forget secondary transfer ferryman.

Are you sent by the way child deaths and cover up at that care home ?