Amaral and the dogs

[Brietta]

Opinions of that sort are unjustly accusing and have no place in official police enquiries.

Particularly by a dog-handler who kept one of the dog inspection videos for his own, personal, promotion on a separate case during the course of his (further) career as a free-lance dog-handler ....

One wonders about that.

• Madeleine McCann's case had not been archived.
• Her parents were still arguidos.
• The video was evidence.

Then everyone seems to have been working assiduously at beavering away in the background to turn Madeleine's case into a cash cow.

The dogs ... the dream ... and Mr Amaral's book - all neatly intertwined.  Pity the same attentiveness hadn't been given to actually looking for Madeleine when the opportunity was there. 

   

[Anna]

If people could take the 'dog's don't lie' belief system out of the equation I think people would realise that there is still a great deal of scientific research and work going into understanding just exactly what it is that causes the dogs to react. 

Because Shannon was very obviously alive they had to find out what caused the alerts, would they have bothered otherwise?

If her remains had been found or she had not been found at all ... what would that have meant for the investigation and the misdirection of resources into her case.

I agree with everything you have said in your post although I know that dogs do alert in areas where bodies have lain (eg ... soil contaminated by a corpse is used for training purposes and I read that when the containing jar is opened it is possible to discern a scent ... can't find the cite).

Were I on a jury listening to cadaver scent evidence where remains or fragments had not been found ... I would not be a happy bunny.   

**Snip
But in the field, VR dogs can sometimes be distracted by “false positives”, such as dead animals, or even mushrooms, explained Lorna.  If she can arrive at a greater understanding of the chemistry of odours from human cadavers, then VR dogs can be extra efficient.
https://www.hud.ac.uk/news/2014/august/forensicsresearchtomakecadaverdogsmoreefficient.php

I know these dogs can scent many things that we are unable to even smell and they do a great job in assisting the police in many cases.

However, when they are being tested the examiner knows what has been introduced to the dogs on the test.
No amount of testing can replace a real crime scene.

Nobody knows what exactly the dog is alerting too or why, when it comes to an alert in a real investigation(unless there is a body of evidence).

Alert of blood or other body fluids, may be corroborated at the laboratory, but this is not the case in, (supposed)  residual scent.

So as Mr Grime said.......................................................

[G-Unit]

    Not at all equal ... unless one gives no weight to what Eddie's handler has to say in his rogatory statement.

Interesting. Just to clear up one point which has been questioned, Grime was working for South Yorkshire Police when he was in PdL;

Between August 1-8, 2007, and while working for the South Yorkshire police, I collaborated with the Judicial Police, Portugal, as regards their Operations Task Force.

Although no evidence of a body was found, this statement is pretty strong imo;

'Is there any chance, however remote, of any confusion'

The dogs do not get confused. They transmit a behavioural response inspired by the recognition of the odour for which they were trained.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

[Alfred R Jones]

His work seems to have been "within the bounds of reasonable handling" since no official censure has been forthcoming.

As is oft repeated with regard to Madeleine`s parents, why should he accommodate the "only asking questions" section of forumites ?

Which authority would you expect to have "censured" Grime?

[Lace]

So no mention of Eddie being re-trained then? Is that quote in the files?

Is Eddie a cadaver dog -   

Cadaver Dog
 A narrow term, used in a search-and-rescue context, to indicate a canine primarily trained as a tracking or air-scent dog that has also received cross training in the location of dead human bodies.

[Carew]

Which authority would you expect to have "censured" Grime?

Nothing official forthcoming from anywhere that you know of then?

[misty]

So no mention of Eddie being re-trained then? Is that quote in the files?

How many cadaver dogs are taught to bark when they identify the scent which they are being trained to find?
Air scenting/barking/scrabbling are all part of search & rescue dog training.
Why was Eddie trained differently if he was only ever to be a cadaver dog?

[Lace]

Or was Eddie a Forensic search dog -

Forensic Search Dog (The primary focus of this paper)
 A canine that has been specifically trained to indicate a scent source as being from decomposed human tissue. Such animals are also trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, feces, and semen and will not alert on residual scent from a live human; and have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.

[Anna]

Or was Eddie a Forensic search dog -

Forensic Search Dog (The primary focus of this paper)
 A canine that has been specifically trained to indicate a scent source as being from decomposed human tissue. Such animals are also trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, feces, and semen and will not alert on residual scent from a live human; and have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.

He was IIRC trained solely by Mr Grime.....So who knows.

Search Asset Profile

'Eddie' The Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog (E.V.RD.) will search for and locate human remains and body fluids including blood to very small samples in any environment or terrain. The initial training of the asset is conducted using pig as the subject matter for solid hides and human blood for fluid. The use of human remains for the purpose of training dogs in the U.K. is not acceptable at this point in time.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic35.html

[Carana]

Or was Eddie a Forensic search dog -

Forensic Search Dog (The primary focus of this paper)
 A canine that has been specifically trained to indicate a scent source as being from decomposed human tissue. Such animals are also trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, feces, and semen and will not alert on residual scent from a live human; and have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.

There could be some confusion concerning the classification and training of dogs - it seems far from uniform.

Some dogs - in whichever country - may have been retrained at some point, and others trained for specific purposes from the start.

[Carana]

Interesting. Just to clear up one point which has been questioned, Grime was working for South Yorkshire Police when he was in PdL;

Between August 1-8, 2007, and while working for the South Yorkshire police, I collaborated with the Judicial Police, Portugal, as regards their Operations Task Force.

Although no evidence of a body was found, this statement is pretty strong imo;

'Is there any chance, however remote, of any confusion'

The dogs do not get confused. They transmit a behavioural response inspired by the recognition of the odour for which they were trained.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

When was the 5A inspection?

[G-Unit]

Is Eddie a cadaver dog -   

Cadaver Dog
 A narrow term, used in a search-and-rescue context, to indicate a canine primarily trained as a tracking or air-scent dog that has also received cross training in the location of dead human bodies.

He may track or air-scent (I'm not sure how he worked), but he would follow the scent of a dead, not a living person.

[Mr Gray]

Not in the slightest.

so there is no case where eddie did not alert to a dead body scent...

[G-Unit]

When was the 5A inspection?

Why are you asking me? It's in the files, I believe - hopefully they managed to translate dates correctly. I will say that it was within the dates quoted. 

[Lace]

He may track or air-scent (I'm not sure how he worked), but he would follow the scent of a dead, not a living person.

What did Eddie alert to in the garden?    I find it difficult to believe that Madeleine lay firstly behind the sofa then in the bedroom as well as in the garden.