Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 845071 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3240 on: August 21, 2015, 04:04:58 PM »
Well they suspected she was dead.

They needs to be carefully defined.

Harrison was instructed by the PJ to investigate that Madeleine had been murdered, and did so.

Harrison himself never formed any firm conclusion about what might have happened to Madeleine.

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3241 on: August 21, 2015, 04:11:48 PM »
They were looking for Madeleine's blood.

Nothing else ....

Yes, the hunch appears to have been that Madeleine's remains (blood or other subsatances) would be found in the Scenic. Despite lurid headlines from half-baked leaks, this wasn't the case.


Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3242 on: August 21, 2015, 04:13:02 PM »
They needs to be carefully defined.

Harrison was instructed by the PJ to investigate that Madeleine had been murdered, and did so.

Harrison himself never formed any firm conclusion about what might have happened to Madeleine.

Agree with you on that.

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3243 on: August 21, 2015, 04:16:59 PM »
In the McCann case there were loads of places where Eddie didn't alert.

True G, but he did however give alerts in this case.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3244 on: August 21, 2015, 04:21:38 PM »
In the McCann case there were loads of places where Eddie didn't alert.

Im asking about a crime scene where no alerts at all were given
If Eddie alerts he can never be proved wrong
If he doesn't alert he can be proved wrong
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 04:24:41 PM by davel »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3245 on: August 21, 2015, 04:25:29 PM »
Anyone know what Martin Grime means when he says 'Enhanced'   as in 'Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog'   as how he trains the dogs is  confidential.

"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."

Eddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains.

The enhanced training of the dog involves the use of collection of 'Dead body scent' odour from corpses using remote technical equipment which does not contact.
The E.V.R.D. will locate cadaver, whether in the whole or parts thereof; deposited surface or sub-surface to a depth of approximately 3-4 feet shortly after death to the advanced stages of deposition and putrefaction through to skeletal. This includes incinerated remains even if large quantities of accelerant have been involved.
The dog will locate human cadaver in water either from the bank side or when deployed in a boat where a large area may be covered using a gridding system.
The dog has also been trained to identify 'dead body' scent contamination where there is no physically retrievable evidence, due to scent adhering to pervious material such as carpet or the upholstery in motor vehicles.
Whereas there may be no retrievable evidence for court purposes this may well assist intelligence gathering in Major Crime investigations.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3246 on: August 21, 2015, 04:28:32 PM »
Could any one tell me what the alerts tell us
As far as I can see they tell us nothing

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3247 on: August 21, 2015, 04:36:06 PM »
Eddie wasn't one these then was he?
After all he alerted to sea bass, nappies and practically everything under the sun that he wasn't trained to alert to, sniffed things for reward or because he was bored and wanted to go home or because he was primed like Clever Hans; or was that Keela?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UiSMyyj-Ac

Keela alerted to what she was supposed to which was confirmed by forensics.  Worth noting that of her alerts only one, the key fob, is linked to the McCann family.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3248 on: August 21, 2015, 04:39:44 PM »
He has taken some flak, but he hasn't been proved wrong yet.

And of course, this was never possible.  And I can't be bothered to go though the whole gamut again.  He was just a dog.  But I do have a nasty suspicion that A Portuguese Court might have been coerced into believing this shite.  They had already been coerced into less.  The shame of which I hope will live with them forever.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3249 on: August 21, 2015, 04:57:21 PM »
A half competent defence would have wiped the floor with him.

But the interesting thing is how would a competent defence have operated in a Portuguese Court?  Sheesh, what a nightmare.  No one speaks English?
But be sure that Amaral would have had The McCanns charged and put on Trial if he could have gotten away with it.  I don't think anyone doubts that.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 01:03:39 PM by John »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3250 on: August 21, 2015, 06:37:35 PM »
The truth about the alerts is that they have no evidential reliability
The truth about Grime is that he was asked if he could confirm the cuddle cat alert
He avoided answering the question
The truth is that the PJ questioned the credibility of the alerts having seen the dogs repeatedly ignore things before alerting to them
The truth is the alerts are BS
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 06:42:17 PM by davel »

Offline Lace

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3251 on: August 21, 2015, 06:51:46 PM »
Possibly through having sniffed human remains at the Body Farm (if he ever visited).

And, quite possibly, through gauze pads of human cadaver scent presumably sent through the post (if that idea ever took off suffiiciently to offer regular train opportunities).

The enhanced
training of the dog has also involved the use of collection of 'cadaver scent'
odor from human corpses using remote technical equipment which does not
contact the subject. This method is comparable to the simulation of cross
contamination. It does however differ in that the remote scent samples
recovery does not involve subject matter and therefore is a 'pure' scent
sample. The dog has since initial training gained considerable experience in
successfully operationally locating human remains and evidential forensic
material.

Thanks Carana,  so he was extra trained from a victim recovery dog to an enhanced victim recovery dog,  yet a forensic dog is trained solely on human remains.

Offline John

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3252 on: August 21, 2015, 06:56:29 PM »
Curiously or otherwise, the only places and objects alerted to by Eddie have associations with the McCanns.   Are we to accept this was purely accidental or is there something more sinister in it all?

Or was it a case of, if you point the dogs to the same places and objects often enough, sooner or later they will react?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 06:58:52 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Lace

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3253 on: August 21, 2015, 06:58:23 PM »
Curiously or otherwise, the only places and objects alerted to by Eddie have associations with the McCanns.   Are we to accept this was purely accidental or is there something more sinister in it all?

The problem I have John is that Eddie was repeatedly called back in 5a yet not in the other apartments.

Offline John

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #3254 on: August 21, 2015, 07:07:33 PM »
The problem I have John is that Eddie was repeatedly called back in 5a yet not in the other apartments.

An excellent example of that was what occurred in the underground garage where the McCann's hire car sat parked in a corner at the end of a line of other cars with the Madeleine posters on it.  Eddie made no reaction to the McCann's car and had to be called back several times by Mr Grime before eventually reacting at the drivers door.  That one incident illustrates perfectly how a handler can impact on the dog and its alerts.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 07:11:54 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.