Amaral and the dogs

[faithlilly]

In which case you will pay particular heed to the words of Mark Harrison which I quote above.

Just answer the question ferryman.

[slartibartfast]

However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed indications. Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.

(Mark Harrison)

He went on to state that if death has occurred, he thought it most likely that Madeleine's remains had been jettisoned into the sea.

Note the crucial if.

How many years' experience has Harrison had?

Still nothing about my statement then.

[ferryman]

The dogs' alerts were unreliable.

Eddie could apparently "find" a scent on clothing in the gym he could find no trace of in the villa.

He could "find" a scent on cuddle-cat after it was hidden in a cupboard he could find no trace of while he could play with it.

And so on ...

[stephen25000]

The dogs' alerts were unreliable.

Eddie could apparently "find" a scent on clothing in the gym he could find no trace of in the villa.

He could "find" a scent on cuddle-cat after it was hidden in a cupboard he could find no trace of while he could play with it.

And so on ...

Of what value is your opinion, when you are totally biased in favour of the mccanns ?

and try answering Faithlilly's question, which I have asked you many times before with no response on your behalf.

[ferryman]

Of what value is your opinion, when you are totally biased in favour of the mccanns ?

and try answering Faithlilly's question, which I have asked you many times before with no response on your behalf.

Change the record.

If you read Harrsons' reports carefully, you will find they are his opinions, too.

Perhaps he knows a thing or two ....

[stephen25000]

Change the record.

If you read Harrsons' reports carefully, you will find they are his opinions, too.

Perhaps he knows a thing or two ....

No need to change the record.

The dogs made indications.  FACT.

They are trained to respond to a group of compounds. FACT.

The forensic analysis was inconclusive, and did not show any pig residiue.

Madeleine disappeared without a trace.  FACT.

There is nothing else in this case which has come to light as possible evidence revealing her fate, other than supposition.

[Brietta]

I Scotland (I think) uncorroborated dog alerts are accepted as evidence, but not as stand-alone evidence.

There must be other, corroborating, evidence, rather like DNA.

Agreed.
As far as I know it has only happened once in Scottish courts ... but in my opinion based on press and news reports of the day's proceedings in court the evidence presented against the accused was compelling enough without the dog's indications being taken into account.
How much weight was given to it by the jury in their deliberations is anyone's guess.

[faithlilly]

Change the record.

If you read Harrsons' reports carefully, you will find they are his opinions, too.

Perhaps he knows a thing or two ....

So is it Harrison's opinion that the dogs were misdirected because if not then the question is still relevant.

So ferryman how many years have you been a dog handler ?

[Eleanor]

Can we please stop asking silly questions.  This is a Forum, and open for debate.

[ferryman]

So is it Harrison's opinion that the dogs were misdirected because if not then the question is still relevant.

So ferryman how many years have you been a dog handler ?

Probably as many as you.

But I am quite content to take Harrison's word that no incriminating inference can be drawn from the reactions of the dogs.

And I'm perfectly happy to draw the only, obvious, inference from the fact that Harrison declined to own the input of Grime and his dogs into searches he had nothing to do with; the places or things (vehicles!) Madeleine never lived in or went near.

It's all in the record.

As is Eddie's "failure" (if that is the right word; it probably isn't) to find scent on clothing in the villa he could, apparently, "find" in the gym (on re-testing).

And if a dog trampling all over stuff it is tasked to inspect, as well as picking up stuff up in its mouth, is top-notch canine deployment, then I am the Queen of Sheba ....

[Brietta]

Of what value is your opinion, when you are totally biased in favour of the mccanns ?

and try answering Faithlilly's question, which I have asked you many times before with no response on your behalf.

Hmmm ... so it appears you and others are of the opinion that if one is a layperson one should not question an 'expert' in his or her particular discipline or pass an opinion.

Have I got that right? 
Bearing in mind that juries sitting in judgement are made up of a variety of lay people tasked with making life changing decisions who are in deep trouble if the judge finds out they have used search engines to inform themselves.  Lay posters on a forum can at least check out the opinions of a variety of experts to help themselves to be better informed.

I think that fact may be the problem you and others may have with lay people versus professional ... that the information is out there to allow the lay person an informed opinion.

In the field of dog training where even science does not know quite what goes on in the nose and the brain of dogs we can access the ongoing studies ... and believe it or not ... work things out for ourselves.

[stephen25000]

Hmmm ... so it appears you and others are of the opinion that if one is a layperson one should not question an 'expert' in his or her particular discipline or pass an opinion.

Have I got that right? 
Bearing in mind that juries sitting in judgement are made up of a variety of lay people tasked with making life changing decisions who are in deep trouble if the judge finds out they have used search engines to inform themselves.  Lay posters on a forum can at least check out the opinions of a variety of experts to help themselves to be better informed.

I think that fact may be the problem you and others may have with lay people versus professional ... that the information is out there to allow the lay person an informed opinion.

In the field of dog training where even science does not know quite what goes on in the nose and the brain of dogs we can access the ongoing studies ... and believe it or not ... work things out for ourselves.

Everyone can have an opinion, but ferryman posts as those his are absolute facts.

It also has to be viewed in terms of his personal bias.

[ferryman]

Hmmm ... so it appears you and others are of the opinion that if one is a layperson one should not question an 'expert' in his or her particular discipline or pass an opinion.

Have I got that right? 
Bearing in mind that juries sitting in judgement are made up of a variety of lay people tasked with making life changing decisions who are in deep trouble if the judge finds out they have used search engines to inform themselves.  Lay posters on a forum can at least check out the opinions of a variety of experts to help themselves to be better informed.

I think that fact may be the problem you and others may have with lay people versus professional ... that the information is out there to allow the lay person an informed opinion.

In the field of dog training where even science does not know quite what goes on in the nose and the brain of dogs we can access the ongoing studies ... and believe it or not ... work things out for ourselves.

good post ....

[Eleanor]

Everyone can have an opinion, but ferryman posts as those his are absolute facts.

It also has to be viewed in terms of his personal bias.

As do yours.

[stephen25000]

As do yours.

We all have our views on this case, for whatever reason we are on this forum for.