Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 844791 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4725 on: September 01, 2015, 08:26:37 AM »

It seems unclear..........The clip in blue doesn`t tie in with the snip from the villa search which records only Eddie present, not Keela. How can it state that Keela possibly indicated blood odours on clothing there?

Was Keela deployed at the villa?



*snip*
"Official record of the canine inspection at 18h14 on 2 August 2007 at the current residence of the McCann couple situated at Rua das Flores, 27, Praia da Luz, Lagos.

 The five participants are indicated as two PJ Inspectors; UK NPIA officer (Harrison); UK dog handler (Grime); UK English Springer spaniel (Eddy)."



Both dogs are reported to have been deployed at the gym.

*snip*
"Official record of the canine inspection at 23h20 on 2 August 2007 at the Municipal Pavilion of Lagos, [situated in] Lagos.

 The ten participants are indicated as being five PJ Chief Inspectors (2)/Inspectors (3); The UK NPIA officer (Harrison); the UK dog handler (Grime); the Portuguese-speaking officer from Scotland Yard (Freitas); and the two UK English Springer spaniels - Eddy and Kila"



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/INSPECTION_SITES.htm


(Sorry....it could be a comprehension malfunction on my part! )

Unless Keela was used to check the toy (the only recorded "alert" in the villa) no.

By a theory evolved specifically for PdL (so far as I'm aware, the very first occasion Keela and Eddie were used together) Eddie is brought in first, then Keela if Eddie alerts.

Apart from the gym, where Keela was deployed first (without reacting) then Eddie was brought in.

Heaven knows why ...

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4726 on: September 01, 2015, 08:28:07 AM »
After examination - surely their gloves would cross contaminate anything else they touched - like their own clothing for instance?

Perhaps they take them off and throw them away afterwards?  8(>((
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Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4727 on: September 01, 2015, 08:41:41 AM »
yes, I did, and I know where it came from, the book!
the files do NOT contain the interrogation of KM before her arguido statements
You still have to give evidence it is a fabrication...or you can refuse to and say, well, I just think that
Finally, no it's not stupid, unless you think her sister in law is stupid too, then again, yeah, KM was a GP not a mortuary technician..hmmmm

It is not possible to prove something that does not exist.

This supposed conversation is not in the pre arquido statement or in the post arguido statement.
And since Cristovao would not have had access to either of these interviews, where is it likely to have come from other than in his own mind.  And even he admits that the book is largely fiction, probably to avoid being sued as at no time was he part of the investigation.

Therefor there was never any need to prove whether or not Kate said this, or in fact came into contact with six dead bodies, or even one.
And if anyone actually believes that she took her daughter's soft toy to the inspection of a dead body they must think that Kate is deranged.


Offline Benice

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4728 on: September 01, 2015, 08:48:23 AM »
Perhaps they take them off and throw them away afterwards?  8(>((

I'm sure they do  -  but you can't take off both gloves without touching the second glove with a bare hand - so one of your hands would then be cross- contaminated.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4729 on: September 01, 2015, 08:57:49 AM »
yes, I did, and I know where it came from, the book!
the files do NOT contain the interrogation of KM before her arguido statements
You still have to give evidence it is a fabrication...or you can refuse to and say, well, I just think that
Finally, no it's not stupid, unless you think her sister in law is stupid too, then again, yeah, KM was a GP not a mortuary technician..hmmmm

She was effectively a locum I believe when she last practiced.

....and how often do Doctors encounter dead bodies in their normal work ?

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4730 on: September 01, 2015, 09:06:44 AM »
Mercury, the extract you quoted from Cristovão's book is supposed to be Kate's arguida interview. If she had answered as described, why aren't the answers noted in the statement?

The official blurb of the book says it was based on conversations with police officers and stories in the media.

Just a few examples:


On the night that Madeleine disappeared, they had consumed twelve bottles of wine, and some appetizers.


He got the myth wrong. The correct myth is 14 bottles...


Second, when they detected the odour of death on the key of the car that they used, which was rented more than twenty days after the little girl went missing. In the same car where they found traces of blood and hair under the spare tire.

I always wondered where the spare tire myth originated...

- Did you ever give your children any medicine to make them sleep?

- No, never - she replies with indignation.

This was a rhetorical question, as it was known that Kate's father had stated that it was usual for them to give the children Calpol to sleep.

He must have read the same tabloid as Amaral on the Calpol issue...

For hours, the questions followed one another, and Kate reached emotional peaks several times. A confession is proposed to her, with the explanation that the penal context is more favourable in such cases. This is done to ensure that an exit is offered to a person who is feeling trapped.

Ooops.


At the moment, all they have is a partially positive DNA match – meaning it could belong either to Madeleine or to her siblings, or to her mother…


And another one who didn't understand DNA...


There are quite a few more, but I'll stop there.

ETA: A dog-related one:

And then there are the doggies, that never missed a case over 200 times, and now supposedly have got it all wrong?

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean...

« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 09:13:07 AM by Carana »

Offline Lace

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4731 on: September 01, 2015, 09:24:36 AM »
Does the contamination result of nose-bleeds, bloody tissues and children falling over disappear then after the dog has been commanded to search?

Obviously I was talking about when Eddie would be around the general public,  not when he was searching the apartments etc.

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4732 on: September 01, 2015, 09:25:57 AM »
With thanks to Astro for translation.


Here's another doggy-related bit.

- We will presume that the dog wasn’t wrong, ok? – says Francisco.

- Maybe it arrived in the Algarve and got his 201st case wrong – João Tavares replies, with a funny smile.
- Well, chief, what do you think about the notion that a body was in the living room where the dog detected the odor, instead of one of the bedrooms? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to hide it in a bedroom?
- That’s right, Francisco, but what if something happened precisely in the living room, and the body remained there until it was decided what to do with it?

- Just ‘being’ there is not enough. It had to remain there for at least one-and-a-half to two hours – Francisco concluded.

- Correct. And what did it take to get it out of there? At least, to wait for darkness. If it was risky to take it out at night, then during the day it would have been madness – João Tavares finalizes.

The two policemen conclude that there might have been an accident inside the apartment. There was no apparent reason for a voluntary crime. Maybe something unexpected had happened, and the parents decided that the best action would be not to assume the fact. It was a possibility that should be considered, taking into account the work of the English dog, and also the work that had been done by the GNR’s sniffer dog, that had detected the trail of Madeleine between apartment 5A and another apartment, and lost it there.

The same English dog found a series of clues that lead him to the beach at Luz, the beach where Krugel had found the presence of Madeleine, already a cadaver. The other dog detected small spots of blood in the living room, which the investigators could at least affirm that belonged to one of the three children of the McCanns. All of this put together, gave them a vision that was not enough as evidence, but certainly as an indication, supported by the theory that the child had been killed inside the apartment, transported from there into another apartment, and then taken to the beach of Luz.

The beach offered the sea as a possibility to conceal the body of Madeleine. But the interior of the Algarve also offers countless possibilities for someone who wants to hide something, to do so with relative ease and success.

- But then, chief, what about the residues that the dogs detected inside the Renaul Scenic? – Francisco questions.

- Well, that really messed the whole picture up, because finding that type of residues in the area that is located just beneath the spare tire is a complicated matter; come to think of it, it’s not really that complicated… or at least not to me – the chief replies, smiling.

- Sure – Francisco continues – one thing is to transport clothing that might have carried traces from the child. They did move house twice, after all, didn’t they? Another entirely different matter is the location of the dog’s findings. Precisely the spot where one would hide things inside a car, right? In the cavity for the spare tire, more precisely beneath the tire. What a strange thing, chief.

- Strange things happen here with the Portuguese, Francisco. When information was released that we had found these elements in the car, the first thing that happened was a voice from London saying that if something had been found, it could only be due to the fact that we had planted it there. Fantastic, isn’t it? – João Tavares protests with indignation, while he walks across the room, from one side to another and back.

- You know what, chief? I’m fed up with those half-profiles and people telling us that we need the CSI here. Those people have no idea how an investigation unfolds in reality.

Francisco is upset about the notion that a criminal investigation works like in the American tv shows. This is completely wrong. It is one thing to analyze great amounts of blood or other bodily fluids, and quite another to examine minuscule samples, that may even be contaminated, which was the case. Apartment 5A had been covered with digital prints of the dozens of people that had been through it, after the child had disappeared.

Even if some criminal had entered the apartment and taken the little girl, what residues would have been left behind? Unless the person had sneezed or grabbed the door handle without gloves, there would have been nothing.

With luck, some footprints might have been preserved, but by the time that the police arrived on location, tens of people had walked through the apartment, covering the footprints of a possible stranger with their own.

João Tavares did not lack ideas, what he needed now was to place them into position, in order to be able to produce a theory that could explain the events of that evening, and to sustain it on facts that could be proved in a court room. This seemed like a gigantic task to him.

Offline carol

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4733 on: September 01, 2015, 09:26:06 AM »
After examination - surely their gloves would cross contaminate anything else they touched - like their own clothing for instance?

And you would of course wear your work clothes on holiday!! Especially those check pyjama like trousers. 8(*(

Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4734 on: September 01, 2015, 09:26:37 AM »
Usually certain doctors from each practice, frequently at an undertakers and always wearing gloves.

So easy to prove, you have to wonder why it wasn't.
That was not the case with my son.

Both doctors came in independantly, but no gloves were worn.

The one doctor was a neighbour, not our usual doctor, but from our practice.  The other doctor was a friend of his and of us.  The first doctor called him in, cos two were needed.


As far as I am aware neither had any links with an undertaker.
People are dying in their own homes all the time.  Such is life .... and doctors have to verify they are dead.


Kate could have been to one such unhappy happening in the days before they came on holiday. 
It only takes one to pass the cadavar scent on.


But we dont know.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4735 on: September 01, 2015, 09:28:10 AM »

Does anyone know when Cristovao's book was published?

Sorry, Off Topic but the knowledge might help.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4736 on: September 01, 2015, 09:35:23 AM »
Does anyone know when Cristovao's book was published?

Sorry, Off Topic but the knowledge might help.

Can't pinpoint the exact date, but it seems to have been summer 2012

Offline carol

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4737 on: September 01, 2015, 09:39:36 AM »
Kate has been close to six bodies in last two weeks at work



 

TimesOnline 10.09.2007


Mrs McCann is reported to have explained that in her work as locum GPshe came into contact with six corpses in the weeks leading up to Algarve holiday.


 

 

 

Offline Benice

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4738 on: September 01, 2015, 09:40:30 AM »
And you would of course wear your work clothes on holiday!! Especially those check pyjama like trousers. 8(*(

I've taken many a favourite skirt or blouse/top etc. which I've worn at work on holiday.  Am I the only one? Surely not.

The point I was making is that wearing gloves would not necessarily guarantee the prevention of cross contamination of cadaverscent onto a doctor's hands or their clothing.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4739 on: September 01, 2015, 09:40:47 AM »
Can't pinpoint the exact date, but it seems to have been summer 2012

Thanks.  So he still hadn't read The Files.  Mind you, he does seem to have been otherwise engaged in other dodgy money making exercises at the time.