What was Julie going to use the bike for ?

[Holly Goodhead]

If it takes 32 interviews, that's what it takes.

Her WS is very long. She was the main witness. In such a serious trial everything has to be right. So it's not going to be done in one interview.

A stark contrast with the length of JB's WS's and interviews.  Certainly nothing like 32!

[Myster]

His interviews are riddled with obfuscation and no comments... things JB said because he'd something to hide and was irked at being rumbled by Julie, don't you think?

Julie had a long story to tell, one that she'd bottled up for months and the police had to make sure that the investigation didn't go pear-shaped a second time... simple!

[APRIL]

His interviews are riddled with obfuscation and no comments... things JB said because he'd something to hide and was irked at being rumbled by Julie, don't you think?

Julie had a long story to tell, one that she'd bottled up for months and the police had to make sure that the investigation didn't go pear-shaped a second time... simple!

Absolutely they did, Myster. Desperate in fact, I imagine. Would have been interesting to have been the proverbial fly on wall to see how those many conversations went.

[Holly Goodhead]

His interviews are riddled with obfuscation and no comments... things JB said because he'd something to hide and was irked at being rumbled by Julie, don't you think?

Julie had a long story to tell, one that she'd bottled up for months and the police had to make sure that the investigation didn't go pear-shaped a second time... simple!

EP lied. They said "I will tell you now that it has been proved that your sister Sheila did  not kill herself and in fact she was murdered along with your parents and the twins, is there anything you wish to say about this?"  This was a lie.  The pathologist has always maintained that he was unable to say either way whether SC was murdered or took her own life. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1258

46. From the pathological evidence alone, the pathologist could not say, one way or the other, whether Mrs Caffell had been murdered or had taken her own life.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

If the police were deliberately and knowingly misleading JB, which JB was no doubt aware of, then I think his behaviour during his interviews was understandable. 


Long story or tall story 

[Caroline]

EP lied. They said "I will tell you now that it has been proved that your sister Sheila did  not kill herself and in fact she was murdered along with your parents and the twins, is there anything you wish to say about this?"  This was a lie.  The pathologist has always maintained that he was unable to say either way whether SC was murdered or took her own life. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1258

46. From the pathological evidence alone, the pathologist could not say, one way or the other, whether Mrs Caffell had been murdered or had taken her own life.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

If the police were deliberately and knowingly misleading JB, which JB was no doubt aware of, then I think his behaviour during his interviews was understandable. 


Long story or tall story 

But the police didn't mention the pathologist - I suspect they were talking about the silencer.

[Holly Goodhead]

But the police didn't mention the pathologist - I suspect they were talking about the silencer.

Can you point me in the direction of where in JB's police interviews they make ref to the silencer in terms of the so-called blood evidence?  I can't see where they make ref to this.  Understandable perhaps if this 'evidence' was fabricated!?

Page 50 - JB's police interviews:

Page 50  the police make ref to SC being unable to kill herself due to two shots.  They claim either or both would prove fatal.  This is a lie or misleading, or both, as it contradicts with the pathological evidence.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1304

Extract CoA doc - pathological evidence:

45. Sheila Caffell was also dressed in her nightwear and bare-footed. She had received two contact or near contact bullet wounds to her throat. The higher of the two wounds would have killed her almost instantaneously. The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately and a person having suffered such an injury may have been able to stand up and walk around for a little time. The lack of heavy blood staining to Sheila Caffell's nightdress suggested that this had not happened here. The lower of the two injuries must have been the first since it had led to haemorrhaging inside the neck and this would not have occurred to the same extent if the other wound, which would have been immediately fatal, had preceded it. Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back. There was no evidence of any other mark or injury to Sheila Caffell's body such as might be suffered during a fight or in a scuffle.

46. From the pathological evidence alone, the pathologist could not say, one way or the other, whether Mrs Caffell had been murdered or had taken her own life.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

[adam]

She doesn't look particularly active to me then or now so maybe.

I would like to know what JM's plans were for the summer of '85 pre tragedy?  She was a full-time student at that time.  Her WS said she always had hol jobs.  In her WS of 8th Aug she says JB told her not to go to work.  Where was she working?  The previous summer she had spent at GH?

Julie had a part time job as a playleader.

She was unable to keep the job the weeks after the murder.

[Holly Goodhead]

Julie had a part time job as a playleader.

She was unable to keep the job the weeks after the murder.

 

Do you have a source?  Is it Wilkes' book?  I think I recall reading it in there now you have prompted my memory.

So unless JM was going to spend time at JB's at the w.e not much need for the bike?  Unless of course they were planning on romantic cycle rides around the Essex countryside complete with picnic?  I do recall in Wilkes' book JB was fond of cycling around Norfolk when he was at boarding school?  Did JB have a bike of his own at GH?  If so why would he need June's? 

[Myster]

Why would he need June's bike?... Isn't it obvious?  Other than to annoy her by circling around, it was an effective way to reach WHF in the middle of the night without being seen.

[Myster]

Why splash money out on a new bike, when he could get a freebie as he did with his cottage, car, petrol, etc., etc., etc. ad infinitum.

[Holly Goodhead]

Why would he need June's bike?... Isn't it obvious?  Other than to annoy her by circling around, it was an effective way to reach WHF in the middle of the night without being seen.

I maintain a more effective way of operating covertly would be by foot?

Was it proved that JB didn't already own a bike of his own? 

Perhaps he was planning a romantic cycle ride/picnic with JM one w.e?  It was summer after all 

[Holly Goodhead]

Why splash money out on a new bike, when he could get a freebie as he did with his cottage, car, petrol, etc., etc., etc. ad infinitum.

Perhaps he didn't need to splash out on a new bike if he already owned one?

The cottage, car, petrol, telephone rental, etc was part of his remuneration package for working full-time at WHF/N & J Bamber Ltd and a director at OCP.  It was calculated at 18k - 20k  pa.  They were not freebies.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1210

[APRIL]

Why splash money out on a new bike, when he could get a freebie as he did with his cottage, car, petrol, etc., etc., etc. ad infinitum.

Surely all farm workers live in tied cottages and it isn't unreasonable for the boss's son to get a few "extras". Was there perhaps, a little coercion on Neville's part to entice Jeremy to work on the farm or do you think Jeremy demanded that Nevillelet go one of his farmhands in order to allow Jeremy his own home?

[Myster]

I maintain a more effective way of operating covertly would be by foot?

Was it proved that JB didn't already own a bike of his own? 
Perhaps he was planning a romantic cycle ride/picnic with JM one w.e?  It was summer after all 

Perhaps he didn't need to splash out on a new bike if he already owned one?

The cottage, car, petrol, telephone rental, etc was part of his remuneration package for working full-time at WHF/N & J Bamber Ltd and a director at OCP.  It was calculated at 18k - 20k  pa.  They were not freebies.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=296.0;attach=1210

Why would he bring a bike for Julie whether it was for part-cycling to work or for this airy-fairy picnic idea of yours, when the relationship was almost over and he wanted out?

You might not regard them as freebies, but I certainly do!  How did he get to London for night club jaunts, trips to Colchester or other places, for going wind-surfing - recreational activities nothing to do with work at WHF?

And why do you always reply to my answers with yet more questions?... at this rate we could be here as long as the McCannites!

[APRIL]

Why would he bring a bike for Julie whether it was for part-cycling to work or for this airy-fairy picnic idea of yours, when the relationship was almost over and he wanted out?

You might not regard them as freebies, but I certainly do!  How did he get to London for night club jaunts, trips to Colchester or other places, for going wind-surfing - recreational activities nothing to do with work at WHF?

And why do you always reply to my answers with yet more questions?... at this rate we could be here as long as the McCannites!

Myster, you give the impression that a "mere" farmworker has no entitlement to London jaunts, trips to Colchester, wind surfing activities, or any recreational activities not connected with his work at WHF. As to borrowing the bike, perhaps he thought to make life in Goldhanger so difficult for her that Julie would decide for herself that she wanted out.