Author Topic: Goncalo Amaral.  (Read 408205 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kizzy

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #390 on: June 06, 2020, 06:16:14 PM »
Like I said before "nothing to see here, move on, move on".

At the end of the day though your opinion is neither here nor there.  Clearly the police of three countries think they have made a significant breakthrough, and I sincerely hope that they are on the right track.

You hope they are on the right track - I think GA was on the right track an at least he thought it an accident.

I doubt Maddie is ever going to be found - but better she went quickly than suffering god knows what.

Offline Brietta

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #391 on: June 06, 2020, 06:38:20 PM »
There was no dereliction of duty.

How do you think that the parents gained access to the file ? If Pavia wasn’t investigating and compiling the information why was there a file at all ? Why not just throw the lot in the bin.....much less risk of being found out.

I’m not sure I’ve ever read any comments from other police forces re: the information or feedback. Do you have a link ?

Refresh your memory here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176391#msg176391 then if you want ~ open a thread on Paiva ~ it may assist this one to get back on the topic of Goncalo Amaral.

Neat piece of deflection work though.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #392 on: June 06, 2020, 06:43:07 PM »
You hope they are on the right track - I think GA was on the right track an at least he thought it an accident.

I doubt Maddie is ever going to be found - but better she went quickly than suffering god knows what.
I always believed she was taken by a paedophile but I would be relieved to be proven wrong and that if she is dead that it was swift and painless and without her knowing was was going on.  Sadly the way things are looking now I think her end was possibly horrific and quite terrifying.  Believing this to be the case is not the same as me wanting it to be the case as some people keep trying to make out, do you understand this?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline faithlilly

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #393 on: June 06, 2020, 07:06:10 PM »
Refresh your memory here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4962.msg176391#msg176391 then if you want ~ open a thread on Paiva ~ it may assist this one to get back on the topic of Goncalo Amaral.

Neat piece of deflection work though.

It was you who brought up Pavia...but right back at you with your deflection quip.

The link you posted adds nothing.....so nothing new there.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 07:08:14 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline John

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #394 on: June 06, 2020, 09:38:37 PM »
It seems I need to repeat this

Someone on this thread has accused others of hoping that this vile specimen is the man responsible for Madeleine’s abduction and murder.  This is a complete misrepresentation of the truth.  Some people hope that justice for Madeleine will soon be achieved, nothing more nothing less.  The idea that this man could have abducted Madeleine and kept her alive for days to torture and abuse her before killing her makes me sick to my stomach and if I had to choose between that scenario and the falling off a sofa after an overdose of Calpol theory, then obviously I would prefer the latter.  I wish people would not twist what is said to make wholly inaccurate and offensive remarks simply to call into question the morality of others, particularly when their own moral judgement has been highly questionable for years.

It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #395 on: June 06, 2020, 11:55:10 PM »
It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.
It’s my understanding that many child abductor/murderers have a history of petty crime that progressively gets less petty the longer they are able to get away with it.  This guy seems to fit that profile exactly up to and including the brutal torture and rape of a woman in the area.  Why do you think he would have stopped there in his quest for stimulation and gratification?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Brietta

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #396 on: June 08, 2020, 11:08:42 AM »
Senior detective argues Madeleine McCann investigation was flawed from the start
An ex-officer who worked on the investigation explains why the search was doomed to failure


Dr Graham Hill, visiting research fellow at the school of law at the University of Leeds and former senior police officer, on the failings of the Madeleine McCann investigation.

News that a 43-year-old German man is now the prime suspect in the Madeleine McCann case appears – at last – to be a significant development.

The information from the German authorities and the Metropolitan Police Service indicates that in May 2007 this man was living and frequenting Praia da Luz, Portugal, and possibly committing burglaries at holiday complexes to fund his itinerant lifestyle. It also appears that as a teenager he was convicted of sexual offences against children in Germany and was therefore a known convicted sex offender in 2007.

This raises several questions: was he known to the Portuguese investigation team at the time? If so, when did his name enter their system and what did they do to implicate or eliminate him from their enquiry? When was his name passed on to the UK investigation team? These are questions at the forefront of my mind as I think back to my time in Portugal.

Madeleine McCann had been missing for several days when I arrived in Praia da Luz in May 2007. I had been sent to Portugal as part of the UK’s Child Exploitation Online Protection Centre (CEOP) response to Madeleine’s disappearance. I was a detective superintendent and senior investigating officer (SIO) with knowledge about predatory child sexual abusers and non-familial child abduction.

After being briefed at the British Consulate regarding Madeleine’s disappearance, I met with Gerry and Kate McCann at their holiday apartment and we discussed the Portuguese police investigation strategy and possible scenarios that could have led to their daughter’s disappearance. Understandably, the McCanns were trying to come to terms with the situation they found themselves in.

During our discussion, Gerry asked me directly if I thought his daughter was still alive, and I pointed out that if she had been abducted – statistically – she would by now be dead. The majority of children who are murdered after being abducted by someone unknown to them are dead within three to six hours. It was a difficult conversation, but I was struck by how focused the McCanns remained throughout.

The following day I went to the police station in Praia da Luz and spoke with several of the lead Portuguese investigators. They were all very polite but it was clear from their attitude and response that they didn’t welcome what they considered to be UK interference in a Portuguese crime.

At that time, they were also receiving advice from Leicestershire Police (the McCanns’ home police force) supported by the then UK National Police Improvement Agency (NPIA).

From the outset I was struck by the lack of urgency surrounding the investigation and it was difficult to establish any detailed information around what direction the investigation was taking. Over the next few days, whenever I suggested certain courses of action that they might wish to consider, the Portuguese police either dismissed it out of hand or I was informed that it had already been done without result.

Flawed investigation
As the days went by, I became more and more frustrated and I relayed this back to CEOP in my telephone conversations and daily written reports. After ten exasperating days avoiding the growing media presence, trying to get and impart information and having meetings cancelled at the last minute because investigators were too busy, it was still unclear to me whether many of the key investigative tasks had been adequately completed.

For example, I had serious misgivings about the quality of the search strategy, the recording of full-time and casual staff at the holiday complex, identification of all known suspected and convicted sex offenders living or frequenting the area, and other significant or relevant crimes in the local area.

My professional opinion was that the Portuguese investigative approach to Madeleine’s disappearance was flawed and not fit for purpose when set against what we would have been done in a similar investigation in the UK. This was reflected time and time again in my verbal and written reports and the “fiasco” was regularly reported on in the press.

Disappointingly, as the investigation progressed there was also a certain amount of inter-agency rivalry between the UK agencies involved, which resulted in a fraught working relationship.

‘Golden hours’ wasted
In the years since Madeleine’s disappearance, I have also raised my concerns as to whether agencies across Europe are still any better prepared for these types of investigations.

When an investigation team doesn’t gather information or act in a timely and systematic fashion, the investigation gets away from them and this dramatically reduces the chances of the crime being solved.

My experience then, and even more so now having studied the behaviour of non-familial child abductors and murderers in-depth as a criminologist, is that the first 24 to 48 hours of a child abduction investigation – often referred to as the “golden hours” – are critical to its successful outcome. It requires strong, dynamic leadership supported by clear defensible decision making.

This must be backed up by systems and structures designed to collect and evaluate information quickly. At the same time, information must be retained in a manner so that it can be revisited at appropriate times as the investigation moves forward and alternative lines of enquiry are considered.

Non-familial child abduction attracts vast amounts of media attention. High-profile cases often attract national media coverage and cases where the child is murdered become, what is called in criminology, “mega-homicides”. These cases can attract worldwide attention and generate vast amounts of information.

The potential for this information to overwhelm even the best-prepared investigation agency during the early hours or days of an inquiry is considerable. For this reason, there is a need for a systematic approach to core policing functions to deal with the complexity. And it is vital to have a thorough, well documented investigation strategy.

These investigations also require highly skilled and experienced investigators who have the ability to make defensible decisions based upon reliable information and create investigative strategy and policy that can stand the test of hindsight. A failure to do so can have serious consequences.

Three years after Madeleine’s disappearance, in 2010, I conducted and wrote CEOP’s internal review of the Portuguese investigation, which was subsequently passed to the Home Office. The review contained observations and recommendations that, after repeated requests from the McCanns, led to the Met being tasked to establish their own investigation, Operation Grange.

The information timeline, when fully known, may offer clarity and explanations to many of the questions that have been swirling around this case since 2007. But these explanations may also raise more uncomfortable questions about the effectiveness of the initial police inquiry and the competence of the people who led it. I only hope this new information leads to some form of closure for the McCanns.

Dr Graham Hill, visiting research fellow at the School of Law, University of Leeds.

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/107185/madeleine-mccann-investigation-flawed
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 11:11:46 AM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #397 on: June 08, 2020, 12:06:45 PM »
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #398 on: June 08, 2020, 12:28:08 PM »
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

But he's an expert... I thought you didn't question the skills of experts

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #399 on: June 08, 2020, 12:29:44 PM »
Your ‘knowledge’ is based on reports which were given to the media by Lift, the Portuguese PR firm hired by the parents.
Some of the ‘information’, mainly sightings I believe, found it’s way into the British media. There was no evidence presented that the information within the files hadn’t been followed up....merely that it had found to be ‘of no relevance to the investigation’. The fact that the files were still available to the parents and hadn’t simply been shredded speaks to their handling. 

Of course this event has to be looked at in context. Several weeks before Pavia had told the court in Lisbon that Kate had called him with details of a dream. Gerry denied this had happened and so the discrediting of Pavia began, which included not only the file accusation but also a rather bizarre sting carried out by a supporter of the parents.

So believe what you will Brietta.....but don’t blame those of us who are less gullible for being that way.

I think the gullible ones are those that believe the rubbish in amarals book

Offline Brietta

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #400 on: June 08, 2020, 12:30:31 PM »
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

One day before I die I plan on producing a cite which meets your exacting standards and a witness who meets with your approval.
I always intended to live for a long, long, long time now it looks as if I'll just have to go for immortality instead.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #401 on: June 08, 2020, 12:34:28 PM »
It is well known in police circles that sneak thiefs, burglars and sex offenders seldom stray from their particular MO.  For that reason it would be unusual for this guy to have abducted and murdered.

This is what has been promoted by some on the forum... But here ee have someone with a history of burglary and child abuse... In that respect it's an astonishing coincidence that someone like him was in Luz that night. He had no history of raping elderly ladies yet that's what one if his burglaries turned into

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #402 on: June 08, 2020, 12:36:49 PM »
Graham Hill was one of two people sent to PdL by CEOP; profilers. The PJ hadn't requested their help as they didn't use profilers. It took a week of hanging around before Hill and his colleague were even spoken to. Was he therefore in a position to claim 'expert' knowledge on the Portuguese investigation?

He certainly wasn't an expert on the facts of the case. He said the McCanns went on holiday with 8 other couples and that they locked the apartment when they went out to eat. He decried the fact that people left PdL and went home a couple of days after the disappearance, but they couldn't have been kept there, could they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JMlJqx1-4s

In my opinion he's just another know-all leaping or being dragged onto the bandwagon.

Do you have s cite for the 8 other couples and locking the apartment...

Offline Brietta

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #403 on: June 08, 2020, 12:53:11 PM »
Do you have s cite for the 8 other couples and locking the apartment...

I wonder if Rosalinda Hutton and Sonia Poulton ring any bells
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: Goncalo Amaral.
« Reply #404 on: June 08, 2020, 12:57:29 PM »
I wonder if Rosalinda Hutton and Sonia Poulton ring any bells

Care to expand ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?